Russian Germans / Rossians and Russians

[John Dingley]

Hi,

My British English ear agrees with Paul Gallagher's "Italian Americans
(Americans of Italian descent)", etc, but not with his "Finland
Swedes". This jars. I would only say "Swedish Finns", thus agreeing
with the Finnish "suomenruotsalaiset" and the Swedish
"Finlandssvenskar". However, Google comes up with 17,600 for
"Finland Swedes" and only 695 for "Swedish Finns". (Is this a British
vs. American thing?)
Is the usual Russian expression:  "shvedskie finny" or
"shvedy Finliandii"?

Parhain terveisin.
John Dingley

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http://dlll.yorku.ca/jding.html

Quoting "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>:

> [redirecting my reply to the list]
>
> Vera Beljakova-Miller (atacama at global.co.za) wrote:
>
> > Dear Daniel,
> >
> >> But "russkii nemets"? - I
> >
> > have heard it said that this expression is perfectly normal (e.g.,
> > the large emigre population living in Berlin), while others have said
> > it is impossible.
> >
> > Perfectly normal, and not only does it refer to the large emigree
> > population in Berlin and elsewhere in Germany, (refugees having taken
> > out German citizenship), but it also refers to large, almost
> > 2-million (before the exodus back to the ancestral homeland Germany),
> > ethnic Germans living in Russia with Russian citizenship, such as the
> > settlers on the Volga since 1764....known also as Volga Germans,
> > (povolzhskie nemtzy), Black Sea Germans, Siberian Germans, Volhynian
> > Germans, etc/
> >
> > If one were to be pedantic, then one would call <ethnic Germans in
> > Russia> = <nemtzy Rossii>
> >
> > <Russkie nemtzy> would signify more Russian Germans, those of German
> > blood but fairly integrated into Russia, and well as colloquially
> > ethnic Russian emigrees living in Germany.
> >
> > Yes, I know this is not always logical and sounds contradictory, but,
> > as said, it is a well-used colloquialism.
> >
> > When speaking loosely, conversationally, and not pedantically, it
> > could refer to a Russian living in Germany or a German living in
> > Russia. - so it depends on the topic of conversation.
> >
> > Nemtzi Rossii is used more for the ethnic German colonists
> > (farmer/settlers from 1764 onwards), who lived once in closed village
> > communities, safeguarding their German language, religion,
> > traditions, etc.
> >
> > Hope this makes it slightly clearer.
>
> Yes and no.
>
> The problem with these phrasings in English is that for us they are
> backwards. Consider:
> 	Italian Americans (Americans of Italian descent)
> 	African Americans (Americans of African descent)
> 	Irish Americans (Americans of Irish descent)
> 	etc.
> as well as:
> 	Finland Swedes (ethnic Swedes living in Finland)
>
> So if we hear "Russian Germans," we will think you mean Russians living
> in Germany, or German citizens of Russian descent.
>
> Unless of course we are Slavophiles and are biased to expect the
> unexpected. ;-)
>
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
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