Russian Germans / Rossians and Russians

[John Dingley]

Hi,

Humble apologies! Finnish "suomenruotsalaiset" and Swedish
"Finlandssvenskar" agree with Paul Gallagher's "Finland Swedes"
(literally both say: "Finlands Swedes") and not with my "Swedish
Finns".

Too early in the morning!

John Dingley

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http://dlll.yorku.ca/jding.html

Quoting John Dingley <jdingley at YORKU.CA>:

> Hi,
>
> My British English ear agrees with Paul Gallagher's "Italian Americans
> (Americans of Italian descent)", etc, but not with his "Finland
> Swedes". This jars. I would only say "Swedish Finns", thus agreeing
> with the Finnish "suomenruotsalaiset" and the Swedish
> "Finlandssvenskar". However, Google comes up with 17,600 for
> "Finland Swedes" and only 695 for "Swedish Finns". (Is this a British
> vs. American thing?)
> Is the usual Russian expression:  "shvedskie finny" or
> "shvedy Finliandii"?
>
> Parhain terveisin.
> John Dingley
>
> ------------
> http://dlll.yorku.ca/jding.html
>
> Quoting "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>:
>
> > [redirecting my reply to the list]
> >
> > Vera Beljakova-Miller (atacama at global.co.za) wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Daniel,
> > >
> > >> But "russkii nemets"? - I
> > >
> > > have heard it said that this expression is perfectly normal (e.g.,
> > > the large emigre population living in Berlin), while others have said
> > > it is impossible.
> > >
> > > Perfectly normal, and not only does it refer to the large emigree
> > > population in Berlin and elsewhere in Germany, (refugees having taken
> > > out German citizenship), but it also refers to large, almost
> > > 2-million (before the exodus back to the ancestral homeland Germany),
> > > ethnic Germans living in Russia with Russian citizenship, such as the
> > > settlers on the Volga since 1764....known also as Volga Germans,
> > > (povolzhskie nemtzy), Black Sea Germans, Siberian Germans, Volhynian
> > > Germans, etc/
> > >
> > > If one were to be pedantic, then one would call <ethnic Germans in
> > > Russia> = <nemtzy Rossii>
> > >
> > > <Russkie nemtzy> would signify more Russian Germans, those of German
> > > blood but fairly integrated into Russia, and well as colloquially
> > > ethnic Russian emigrees living in Germany.
> > >
> > > Yes, I know this is not always logical and sounds contradictory, but,
> > > as said, it is a well-used colloquialism.
> > >
> > > When speaking loosely, conversationally, and not pedantically, it
> > > could refer to a Russian living in Germany or a German living in
> > > Russia. - so it depends on the topic of conversation.
> > >
> > > Nemtzi Rossii is used more for the ethnic German colonists
> > > (farmer/settlers from 1764 onwards), who lived once in closed village
> > > communities, safeguarding their German language, religion,
> > > traditions, etc.
> > >
> > > Hope this makes it slightly clearer.
> >
> > Yes and no.
> >
> > The problem with these phrasings in English is that for us they are
> > backwards. Consider:
> > 	Italian Americans (Americans of Italian descent)
> > 	African Americans (Americans of African descent)
> > 	Irish Americans (Americans of Irish descent)
> > 	etc.
> > as well as:
> > 	Finland Swedes (ethnic Swedes living in Finland)
> >
> > So if we hear "Russian Germans," we will think you mean Russians living
> > in Germany, or German citizens of Russian descent.
> >
> > Unless of course we are Slavophiles and are biased to expect the
> > unexpected. ;-)
> >
> > --
> > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> > --
> > Paul B. Gallagher
> > pbg translations, inc.
> > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> > http://pbg-translations.com
> >
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