AW: [SEELANGS] Russian Germans / Rossians and Russians

[FIEGUTH Rolf]

Dear Maryna Vinarska,

if I did not overread something, nobody mentioned as far the most traditional German term for Germans born and brought up in Russia - it is "Russlanddeutscher/Russlanddeutsche", literally "Russia Germans". This is how a (somewhat distant) part of my family was and is speaking of themselves, when asked about their identity.
Bet,

Rolf Fieguth

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] Im Auftrag von Maryna Vinarska
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. März 2006 00:17
An: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] Russian Germans / Rossians and Russians


  
OK, but how about "rossiiskie nemtsy?" Does that sound artificial? Or is it natural, referring to less russified people of German extraction than "russkie nemtsy?" ..................................As to me, I have never heard this "rossijskie nemtsy" at all. And I know for sure, that  it is not a good idea to call BALTIC Germans either "rosijskie" or "russkie nemtsy", unless you want to make them absolutely mad... I know this just because one part of my ancestors belonged to this group. It's really better not to call them like this... Old generations didn't speak Russian at all, at least in Latvia. German was spoken in families. And as you, I suppose, know, they didn't want to identify with the USSR, meaning with Russia,  very much, so to say... I mean all three Baltic republics.
   
  I probably missed the starting point, because I can't understand what the whole story is about. 
   
  However, "russkie nemtsy" is used in an actually very special context, only when smb who doesn't belong either to this group of Germans or to authentic Germans wants to point out that exactly those Germans who came to Germany from the former USSR are meant.
   
   In the USSR they were simply Germans. No one ever called them "russkie nemtsy". In Germany they are simply "Russen" meaning Russians. This is how authentic Germans call this population: either Russen or Spaetaussiedler (pozdnie pereselentsy). In other words: in, let's say, Russia they were Germans, in Germany they are Russians. They themselves, meaning these "russkie nemtsy", consider themselves in most cases simply Russians. They don't say about themselves: "My, russkie nemtsy, ...". They say: "My, russkie, ..."  And in the situation one can see in Germany it is quite natural. It is a natural reaction to the fact that they are not accepted by the society, so they don't want to identify with it as well.
   
  As to the comment of Paul B. Gallagher:
  The problem with these phrasings in English is that for us they are backwards. Consider: Italian Americans (Americans of Italian descent) African Americans (Americans of African descent) Irish Americans (Americans of Irish descent) etc. I would say that "russkie nemtsy" doesn't have this connotation, if I understand the meaning of "backwards" in the right way, just because it is not used in similar contexts, or by those who would like to load it with any special meaning, like it is with the word "Russen" which implies that it is about those who are from the country where there are no schools, no universities, no one speaks English, everybody drinks vodka day and night, and white bears stroll along the streets back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...
   
  I hope I shed more light on the topic.
   
  Regards,
  Maryna Vinarska
  Germany, NRW
   
  Sorry, now I have to say a couple of words to the Thought Police: Liebe Kollegen und Kolleginnen! Ich werde die Kopie dieses Briefes selbst an die zuständige Bezirksregierung schicken. Sie können sich Ihre Bemühungen sparen. Alles Gute!


		
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