AW: [SEELANGS] Russian Germans / Rossians and Russ ians

[Slivkin, Yevgeny]

Dear colleagues,

I would like to add a historical perspective to the discussion on the
appropriate designations for Germans in Russia and the territories under the
Russian protectorate.  This perspective might help clarify the issue.

The Germans who lived in the Baltic regions which came under Russian rule
after the Northern War in 1700 were never called “russkie nemtsy.”  In the
nineteenth century they were called “ostzeiskie nemtsy” (Ostzee is the old
German name for the Baltic Sea).  They were called “pribaltiiskie nemtsy” in
the twentieth century, even during the Soviet period.

The distinctions between “russkie nemtsy” and “ostzeiskie nemtsy” in the
perception of the Russian public in the nineteenth century were significant.
The “ostzeiskie nemtsy” were descendents of the Livonian knights and
successfully competed with the Russian nobility in both civilian and
military spheres.  The educated Russian nobility tolerated the russified
Germans who lived in the “primordial” Russian territories, but they hated
the “ostzeiskie nemtsy.”  The Decembrists were especially paranoid and
xenophobic in regard to this latter group.  “Raznochintsy” of the late
nineteenth century inherited this hatred from the nobility.

Years ago, while researching the depiction of German knights in Russian
romanticism, I came across a brochure by the historian and journalist M. P.
Pogodin (editor of “Moskovskii vestnik” and “Moskovitianin”) entitled
“Ostzeiskii vopros” (1869).  In this pamphlet, the author addresses
Professor Shirren, an “ostzeiskii nemets” who occupied the position of Dean
of the Department of History and Law at the University of Derpt (Tartu).
Below I quote a characteristic passage in my clumsy translation:

“For us, all Germans fall into three categories:  1) The German Germans, the
residents of Germany – we honor and respect them as a first class European
nation.  2)  The Russian Germans, those Germans who became russified, who
serve our state and live among us – we love them and are grateful to them
for the many services they have rendered to us.  3)  The ostzeiskie Germans,
those who are the most viciously antagonistic to us.  Their existence and
attitude to us well justify the proverb: ‘One could not make an enemy for
himself unless one gave him food and drink with his own hand.’  You, the
ostzeiskie Germans, hate us in your hearts.  And this hatred is the most
convincing proof of your own malady.”

 
Respectfully,

 
Yevgeny Slivkin




------------- 
Yevgeny A. Slivkin, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Russian
European and Latin American School
Defense Language Institute
Presidio of Monterey
Monterey, CA 93950
Of. 9831)643-0474

  

-----Original Message-----
From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list
[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Maryna Vinarska
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:56 AM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] AW: [SEELANGS] Russian Germans / Rossians and
Russians

FIEGUTH Rolf <rolf.fieguth at UNIFR.CH> wrote:    Dear Maryna Vinarska,

if I did not overread something, nobody mentioned as far the most
traditional German term for Germans born and brought up in Russia - it is
"Russlanddeutscher/Russlanddeutsche", literally "Russia Germans". This is
how a (somewhat distant) part of my family was and is speaking of
themselves, when asked about their identity.
Bet,

...............................Dear Rolf, 
  
I would NOT say that this "most traditional German term" is really widely
used. I see it only in articles on the topic, probably just because it is
too risky for authours to call this particular group simply "Russen" in
writing, like they, no doubt, call them when talking to each other.
   
  As to the huge ammount of Germans from the former USSR I myself came
accross, I would say that they preffer the term "Spaetaussiedler" nowadays
if they are asked who they are. And there are enough reasons for exactly
this choice. One of them is probably the fact that they don't associate
Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan with exactly Russia in their minds to call
themselves "Russlanddeutsche", especially if it is the generation which is
the result of cross-cultural marriages. Besides, they know that,
unfortunately, not everybody in Germany knows what and where Uzbekistan, for
example, is. So there is no sense to say smth like "Uzbekdeutsche"... 
   
  It's actually very complicated. And I don't know what the starting point
was. And I didn't get it, what your statement actually is.
   
  Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
  Maryna Vinarska

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