No subject

[Kim Braithwaite]

OK, all kidding aside. Certainly mutual respect, even sympathy, is called 
for. In the same way we respect the other person's religion without 
necessarily embracing it ourselves.

Couple of questions and comments:

1. How shall we pronounce Kyiv? English speakers - and probably most other 
Europeans - can't comfortably mouth the Ukrainian sound here represented by 
"y" - somewhat akin, I believe, to the sound of Russian yery. Not to mention 
the fact that - if the information I have is correct - word-final "v" in 
Ukrainian sounds like our "w." Surely it should not be mandatory to master 
Ukrainian in order to call the capital city of Ukraine by its right name. I 
predict that most people will get used to the new official spelling and 
still pronounce it (pardon the crude notation) KEE-yev. or kee-YEV.

2. What is the Ukrainian counterpart of the capital of Italy? And the little 
country on the Black Sea whose capital city is Tbilisi? Answers: Rym and 
Hruziya (Gruziya), respectively. "Gruziya," by the way, was also imposed by 
Nash Starshiy Brat, if you want another example of nasty colonialism. The 
real name of Georgia is Sakartvelo (the whole story is complicated , but let 
it go).

3. If "Kiev/KEE-yev" is odious, why isn't "Ukraine" [pron. yoo-KRANE]? I 
happen to love the native name of the country, which has a very pretty and 
melodious sound - oo-kra-YEE-na. As a matter of curiosity, which nation or 
ethnos, dominant or subjugated, decided in centuries past to give it a name 
which - again if my information is correct - means something like "on the 
outskirts" (or "borderlands"). From whose perspective? Reminds me that while 
the Russian term for Transcaucasia means "that side of the Caucasus," the 
ethnoses to the south of the mountains call it "this side of the Caucasus." 
It's a matter of perspective, you see. And speaking of perspective, I think 
we could all use a little more of it.

Mr Kim Braithwaite, Translator

    "Good is better than evil, because it's nicer" - Mammy Yokum (Al Capp)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karen Vickery" <karen.vickery at NIDA.EDU.AU>
To: <SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 3:30 PM
Subject: [SEELANGS]


Hear! Hear!, Nadia.  Having some fun is one thing, but the whole "that's how 
we spell it in English smacks of colonial arrogance to me."

National Institute of Dramatic Art (Nida)
History of Theatre & General Studies
-----Original Message-----
From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list 
[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Nadia Michoustina
Sent: Monday, 23 October 2006 7:35 AM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS]

I am both alarmed and upset by the joking and dismissive tone of the
discussion regarding the Kiev/Kyiv question. Certainly, it is not
only the question of transliteration. I'd expect that Slavists
should demonstrate awareness of issues of post-Soviet national
identity and sensitivity to matters of language.

Incidentally, the United Nations has been using Kyiv in its
communiqués since 1990s when the Ukrainian government revised some
official English spellings to better match its country's language.
    The media stuck with Kiev, perhaps because it is better known,
perhaps because they don't want foreign governments dictating
English spelling, or maybe because they're worried that Kyiv looks
like a typo. But all Ukrainians I know welcome the change because
it better reflects their perception of Ukraine (not "the Ukraine"
by the way) as an independent nation. (In a similar spirit
Leningrad was renamed to St. Petersburg)



-- 
Nadia Michoustina
Doctoral Candidate
Department of Slavic Languages
Columbia University
708 Hamilton Hall
1330 Amsterdam Avenue
MC 2839
New York, NY 10027

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