QUERY: uzhe + poka = ???

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Thanks to everyone for your insights so far.

In an off-list conversation with Alina Israeli, I wrote:

> ... my logic problem. It seems to me that "уже" and "пока" are
> contradictory, ....
> 
> For me, "уже" = "already" says that a condition [in this case, the 
> impossibility of population reduction] that didn't used to prevail 
> (negative state) now does prevail (has become positive), and did so 
> sooner than expected; moreover, the expectation is that it will remain 
> positive in the future. The focus of the comment is on the unexpectedly 
> early change from negative to positive. In ordinary language, it used to 
> be possible, but it has changed to impossible, and is expected to remain 
> impossible.
> 
> ----------------------++++++++++(now)+++++++++++++++
> the (not im)possible   has become impossible...
>   возможное            уже стало невозможным...
> 
> 
> On the other hand, "пока" = "so far" says that the condition has been 
> positive all along, but there is hope that it will end (turn negative). 
> So in this case, impossibility has prevailed all along, but there is 
> hope that that will end. Exactly the opposite, except perhaps for some 
> details of timing of the change.
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++(now)++++++-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?
> the impossible (for now)      may someday become (not im)possible...
> пока невозможное              когда-то может стать возможным...

Alina rightly points out that I cannot equate "уже" to "already" because 
the Russian word lacks the connotation of "sooner than expected." I'm 
grateful for the correction, but I'm still left with the fundamental 
contradiction described above.

Alina proposes a model like this for the phrase "уже невозможно и пока 
невозможно":

nonviolent population reduction...
------------------+++++++++++++++++++++----------------------------
(was possible)     (is now impossible) (will become possible again)

Do others agree that this is what it means?


In a separate posting onlist, colkitto wrote:

> it's only my second message, so I'll add that "for the foreseeable 
> future" seems to be a nice way of rounding things off at the end of a
> paragraph, though it does add an idea that is not specified in the 
> source text. Incidentally "uže nevozmožno" appears to imply that 
> reducing the planet's population to a billion when it was at, say, a 
> billion and a half, might have been possible, but not now, when it's 
> six, seven, eight, or nine billion (I forget the exact figure).

Though the authors could well have said "for the foreseeable future," 
they did not, and I am unwilling to introduce this unnecessary albeit 
minor distortion.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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