AW: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism

[FIEGUTH Rolf]

Dear Olga, 

I agree only with the last sentences of your message. Some twenty or thirty years ago, many speakers of German or French were thinking of their language as you do of Russian. Meanwhile, in Swiss administrative usage, you have always to use both forms "der Professor, die Professorin", "le professeur, la professeure" (!! - horrible to a France French ear and eye), and, at least in German, the reader "der Leser" is frequently replaced by "die Lesenden" or "die Leserschaft" - so maybe, some 20 later, we will have in Russian something like "chitayushchie" or even "chitatel'stvo" (ot chego nas, Bozhe, sokhrani).

All the best,

Rolf Fieguth 



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list im Auftrag von Olga Meerson
Gesendet: So 30.03.:37
An: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism
 
I find the expression 'his or her' unusable in Russian. Chitatel' ozhidal, chto... obviously includes female readers, while chitatel'nitsa ozhidala chto... equally obviously EXcludes male readers. This is the nature of Russian as a grammatically gendered language, period, end of discussion. Chitatel' ili chitatel'nica ozhidali, chto..., in fact, creates a differentiation between the two, that is somehow gender-based--as if it would be understood by default that male and female readers always expected DIFFERENT things. In gendered languages, an attempt to use this formally inclusive language may, in fact, add a sexist tint, or at least a note of a sentimentalist, deliberately Lawrence-Sternian or Karamzinian, gesture to the comment or implicit address. Am I wrong about the French, Alina? (I trust your authority in these matters). In Russian, at least, that is how I feel. Or perhaps even being a character in Molière's "Les Précieuses ridicules". But that is my feeling about man
y types of writing, in English, today. Russian allows a bit less of that. No? 

----- Original Message -----
From: Genevra Gerhart <ggerhart at COMCAST.NET>
Date: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:43 pm
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism

> Ladies and gentlemen: (If you will pardon the expression),
> 
> Alina said:  There are PC elements that some older generation 
> people find
> objectionable, such as "his or her" instead of "his" referring to some
> unknown person, and some similar substitutions where the reference 
> to ANY
> person was traditionally in masculine gender.
> 
> Quite right:  I am old, and I do find "his or her" offensive. Just 
> "his"used to be enough to indicate both sexes, and as we know, 
> brevity is better.
> But the reason should be made clear: these long "euphemisms" are 
> and have
> been used, _especially in the academic community_ especially among 
> deans and
> above, to demonstrate their PC-ness to either hide or to sugar-coat an
> intention not to hire or promote a female of the species.  (I have 
> actuallyheard of someone's using this device to avoid doing the 
> unthinkable.)
> My argument is that it is not the language that rules (as some 
> would make us
> think), but life itself. What we must change is the life part, and 
> languagewill change meaning with us. 
> 
> Genevra Gerhart
> 
> ggerhart at comcast.net
> 
> www.genevragerhart.com
> www.russiancommonknowledge.com
> 
> 
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