Derzhavnaya bogoroditsa?
William Ryan
wfr at SAS.AC.UK
Wed Oct 28 00:17:00 UTC 2009
And I would respectfully reply that the English usage of the Orthodox
Church of America (is that the Russian Orthodox Church in America or
another church?) is not a good guide to general English usage or usage
in the world of art. A quick survey of Google (using precise search
within double quotes) gives the following (the second figure is from UK
sites only):
Theotokos of Vladimir - 329,000/ 7870 hits
Our Lady of Vladimir - 72,800/ 921 hits
Virgin of Vladimir - 51,700/ 1890 hits
Mother of God of Vladimir - 20,700/ 921 hits
I assume that the large number of hits for Theotokos (a slight surprise
to me) is precisely to avoid possible contentiousness of translation. It
is used by Wikipedia (quote): "The Theotokos of Vladimir (Greek :
Θεοτόκος του Βλαντιμίρ), also known as Our Lady of Vladimir or Virgin of
Vladimir (Russian : Владимирская Богоматерь) and "The Vladimir Madonna"."
The Britannica online article gives "Our Lady of Vladimir" and so do
several Russian English-language websites, including the Tret'yakov
Gallery, The Vladimir-Suzdal Museum, the Kremlin Museum and several
sites run by the Russian Orthodox Church, such as the Department for
External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate.
Conversely the smallest category "Mother of God of Vladimir" is found on
several Catholic and Anglican sites as well as Orthodox sites. All four
titles can be found on English-language Orthodox sites. They do not
appear to have "major differences of emphasis and understanding".
Google is not of course a very discriminating tool, but, even so, all
this suggests strongly that while there may be local confessional
preferences, the most widespread untranslated name of the icon in
English is Theotokos of Vladimir, and the most widespread translated
name is Our Lady of Vladimir, as I originally suggested.
Will Ryan
Michele A. Berdy wrote:
> I'd respectfully disagree. The Orthodox Church of America (and other
> Orthodox Churches in the US) translate Bogomater as Mother of God and
> almost never as Our Lady of... or the Holy Virgin. There are major
> differences of emphasis and understanding at issue.
>
> There are many icon "types" that don't refer to anything specific in
> the icon itself (like "Tenderness"). I think Prof Rancour-Laferriere
> is right. The name Derzhavnaya refers to the entire image of wordly
> dominion, not just the orb. The appearance of the icon and its image
> were understood to mean that in the absence of the tsar, the Mother
> of God would rule over (ie, take care of, watch over) Russia.
>
> It is indeed difficult to translate. I'd have to check, but I think
> the title is generally just transliterated. To me "Russian Imperial
> Mother of God" is a bit too specific (derzhavnaya is such a big
> word!) and also a bit ambiguous (could sound like an icon that
> belonged to or had special meaning for the imperial family). But I
> can't think of anything better. Dominion Mother of God? The Mother of
> God of Worldly Dominion? Not very good, I'm afraid. Requires more
> thought and poking around.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Ryan" <wfr at SAS.AC.UK> To:
> <SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 2:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Derzhavnaya bogoroditsa?
>
>
> > Dear Daniel. You raise an interesting point of translation. This is
> > not a question of your personal church affiliation, or lack of it.
> > My suggestion of "Our Lady of the Orb" was prompted only by the
> > fact that "Our Lady of ..." or "The Virgin of ..." is the most
> > familiar English terminology used in naming art works involving
> > Marian iconography, Eastern or Western, e.g. the very common
> > "Virgin of Kazan'" or "Our Lady of Kazan'" for Kazanskaia
> > Bogomater'. "The Mother of God of Kazan'" can certainly also be
> > found but to my ear has an over-literal and possibly ambiguous
> > flavour, while to use "Theotokos", which some favour, seems to me
> > to be an example of "obscurum per obscurius". My main point,
> > however, was simply that in the case of the Bogomater' Derzhavnaia,
> > the word "derzhavnaia" seems to me more probably to mean "of the
> > orb" than "powerful", following the common tradition of naming
> > icons after an iconographic feature or attribute. An orb may not be
> > part of the conversational vocabulary of the average American or
> > British speaker (Pantokrator even less so), but that is immaterial
> > - this icon is conspicuous for its prominent use of the orb and
> > sceptre - and that is what they are called. To translate this as
> > "imperial" is an interpretative assumption which could be
> > inaccurate, and is I think a jump too far. Can any of our Russian
> > colleagues cast any light on this icon title? Will Ryan
> >
> >
> > Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote:
> >> Dear Will, That is an interesting point. Normally an orb
> >> ("derzhava") is topped with a cross, signifying the reign of
> >> Christ over earthly powers (this was true in Byzantine areas,
> >> medieval West). Traditionally the Pantokrator may hold the orb,
> >> or an earthly ruler may hold the orb. For a Russian example,
> >> see:
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_regalia.jpg
> >>
> >> In the "Bogomater' Derzhavnaia" icon, however (Fig. 19 in my
> >> book), the cross is not atop the globe, but at the tip of the
> >> scepter. Curious displacement. Also, the Mother of God, not the
> >> Christ child is holding the globe (although he is pointing to
> >> it). So she has what may be termed an attenuated orb/derzhava
> >> (assuming that the cross by itself signifies power in an imperial
> >> context, which it always has from the time of Constantine's
> >> adoption of the cross when the Roman Empire was Christianized).
> >> So: "Our Lady of the Attenuated Orb?" No, sounds too
> >> problematical. First, she is not MY "lady," for I do not belong
> >> to OUR Christian collective, and "lady" is a bit off for various
> >> reasons. I prefer the literal translation "Mother of God," and
> >> "orb" sounds too obscure into the bargain, not a part of the
> >> vocabulary of ordinary English-speaking believers (at least not
> >> this former North American believer; perhaps "orb" is more
> >> widespread among British speakers?). So perhaps: "Russian
> >> Imperial Mother of God" (as opposed to Russian national/ist
> >> Mother of God, which would describe Vladimirskaia, Kazanskaia,
> >> etc.; yet nationalists can be imperialists or monarchists too).
> >> Other suggestions out there? It is quite a striking image.
> >>
> >> Regards to the list - Daniel RL
> >>
> >>
> >> On Oct 23, 2009, at 4:21 PM, William Ryan wrote:
> >>
> >> Daniel, this is useful information. I do wonder though, in view
> >> of the iconography, if "derzhavnyi" might perhaps here be an
> >> adjective formed from "derzhava" not in the sense of state or
> >> power, as you have translated it, but of the orb (also called
> >> "derzhava") which the Mary is holding? The orb and sceptre are
> >> after all a departure from tradition and the most striking
> >> feature of the icon. Thus an appropriate English name for the
> >> icon might be "Our Lady of the Orb". Will
> >>
> >>
> >> Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote:
> >>> Dear colleagues, I agree with the comments of Michele A. Berdy.
> >>> The finding of "Derzhavnaya" was represented as "quite an
> >>> event." Here are some further sources referring to it (from my
> >>> 2005 book THE JOY OF ALL WHO SORROW):
> >>>
> >>>> The Mother of God is interested in defending Russia not only
> >>>> from external enemies, but from internal enemies as well.
> >>>> Indeed, she seems to have taken over as protective ruler of
> >>>> Russia in March of 1917, right after political opponents of
> >>>> Nikolai II had forced him to abdicate. At this time in the
> >>>> village of Kolomenskoe near Moscow an icon was �found� of her
> >>>> called Derzhavnaia (roughly, �Great Power�). There now exist
> >>>> many copies of this icon, which is commemorated every year
> >>>> on 15 (2) March. The icon shows the Mother of God seated on
> >>>> a throne with the Christ child, wearing a crown, and holding
> >>>> a scepter and orb (see Figure 19).[i] In this image Mary is
> >>>> not only the �Heavenly Tsaritsa,� but even �Russian Tsaritsa�
> >>>> (�Tsaritsa Rossiiskaia�) in one of the nationalist
> >>>> accounts.[ii] According to legend, the finding of this icon
> >>>> signalled that the Mother of God was �taking power over
> >>>> Orthodox Rus�,�[iii] or that she �took on Supreme Tsarist
> >>>> power over Russia and over the people,�[iv] or that she was
> >>>> the only one worthy to take the �Russian scepter� �from the
> >>>> hands of Saint Nikolai [i.e., tsar Nikolai II].�[v] In 1991
> >>>> myrrh flowed from a Derzhavnaia icon located in Moscow,
> >>>> prompting one nationalist scholar to ask rherorically:
> >>>> �Perhaps the Most Holy Sovereign was bearing witness to the
> >>>> fact that, having accepted the succession to Russian power at
> >>>> the end of the Orthodox monarchy in 1917, She was not
> >>>> abandoning Her protective rule in this new Time of Troubles
> >>>> as well?�[vi]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [i] . Filadel�f 1998, 254; Dorenskaia 1999, 59-63; Orekhov
> >>>> 2000, 165-73; Zevakhin 1996, fig. 244.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [ii] . Skazanie o iavlenii Presviatoi Bogoroditsy v g.
> >>>> Budennovske 18 iiunia 1995 goda i napisanii ikony Ee
> >>>> Sviato-Krestovskoi, 1999, 4.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [iii] . Vladimir 1995, 2.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [iv] . Dorenskaia 1999, 60.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [v] . Orekhov 2000, 167.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [vi] . Liubomudrov 2000, 160.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards to the list, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Oct 22, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Michele A. Berdy wrote:
> >>>
> >>> With icons, I don't think you're going to find much scholarly
> >>> or peer-reviewed literature -- especially about one that was
> >>> found via visions in March 1917. Here's a link for Metropolitan
> >>> Tikhon's report on it, which mentions an archeologist at the
> >>> time who said that it came from one of the churches in the
> >>> Voznessensky monastery.
> >>> http://www.krotov.info/acts/20/1917_19/babkin_12.htm
> >>>
> >>> It sounds as if it were quite an event at the time, so your
> >>> student might check the newspaper archives.
> >>>
> >>> I seem to recall that it was also a very big event when the
> >>> icon was returned to the church in Kolomenskoe (where it still
> >>> is).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Anemone"
> >>> <AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU> To: <SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu> Sent:
> >>> Thursday, October 22, 2009 5:19 PM Subject: [SEELANGS]
> >>> Derzhavnaya bogoroditsa?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Dear List,
> >>>>
> >>>> Here's another interesting question from another former
> >>>> student. She's looking for information on an icon that they
> >>>> call "Derzhavnaya" in Russian and the "Reigning (icon of the
> >>>> mother of God)" in English. Just about every website of
> >>>> Orthodoxy mentions this icon and they all tell the same
> >>>> story: the peasant girl who found the icon on March 2, 1917,
> >>>> etc. but she haven't been able to find a single scholarly,
> >>>> historical, or peer-reviewed source that mentions this icon.
> >>>> Does anyone know anything about this icon? Is its story a
> >>>> fiction of the post-soviet Orthodox Church? Any sources?
> >>>>
> >>>> As always, thanks for the help.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tony
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> -- Anthony Anemone Chair & Associate Provost of Foreign
> >>>> Languages The New School 212-229-5676 ex. 2355
> >>>>
> >>>>
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