The problem of audition in language learning

[Melissa Smith]

Wouldn't it also be helpful to consult an Internationa Phonetic 
transcription to understand in what part of the mouth the sound is 
formed?
 
On 8/24/10 4:48 AM, Mark Kingdom wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> This is what I would do, (for what it's worth):
> 
> Get some recordings of good, clean Korean. (I suspect Rosetta would be 
good
> for this, if they have Korean. Or Pimsleur.)
> 
> Transcribe what you hear, and DO NOT look at the answer. And (as Anne 
Marie
> said) DO NOT worry at all about meaning.
> The goal is simply: This is what I hear when a Korean says this word:
> 
> I'd then make recordings of myself saying these very same words and 
have a
> native speaker listen and say,
> "This is what I hear when you say **** ."
> 
> When I was first learning Russian, I transcribed all 50 CDs of the 
Pimsleur
> Russian series, and then paid a native Russian
> speaker to listen as I read from my notebooks. And I was always 
looking for
> the same thing: What did I say? Is my pronunciation
> understandable? (I'm not aiming for native pronunciation. I just want 
to be
> clearly understood by native speakers.)
> 
> Based on the results I got from my time with the native speaker, I'd 
really
> concentrate on the problem sounds. (For example,
> if a Russian speaker were to do this exercise, they'd inevitably get 
caught
> on the 'i' sound of words like 'big' and 'ship' ("beeg....sheep")
> So, they would then work with a native speaker trying to really nail 
those
> few problem sounds.
> 
> So, again, it comes down to how well you transcribe. What's funny is, 
when I
> was transcribing the Pimsleur stuff,
> the same words would come up, of course, in different situations....and
> sometimes my transcription varied. I don't mean
> kuritsa  versus  kuritsu, I just mean, sometimes I'd hear, for example,
> здравствуйте one way, and then slightly different
> the next. Those variations in your transcriptions (especially if 
transcribed
> in different sessions) are very enlightening.
> "Hmm...sometimes it sounds like this, and sometimes like this. I need 
more
> examples from more speakers."
> 
> Anyway, that's what I did with Russian, and that's what I'd do if I 
were
> trying to learn Korean.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely do NOT bother with meaning, as Anne Marie said. Transcribe 
clear
> Korean speech using
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Paul B. Gallagher <
> paulbg at pbg-translations.com> wrote:
> 
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> > Since we have a lot of professional language teachers here, I 
thought this
> > would be the right place to get expert advice.
> >
> > I've been working with Russian for decades, and when I hear the 
occasional
> > unfamiliar word, my ear is now good enough that I identify all the 
sounds
> > correctly and can generally look the word up in a dictionary on the 
first
> > try, and almost always by the second or third try (because of 
idiosyncrasies
> > of the spelling system). But this has not always been true, and it's
> > certainly not true when I listen to less-familiar languages.
> >
> > I've recently taken an interest in Korean, and despite many hours of 
hard
> > work, I'm still often unsure of what I'm hearing or even mistaken. 
Some of
> > that is simply the vocabulary problem (listeners who expect a word 
recognize
> > it even if it's mispronounced a little), but mostly it's because I'm 
just
> > not proficient at hearing that sound inventory. For example, the 
name of a
> > favorite soap opera, 미우나 고우나, should be /miuna kouna/, but when I 
hear it,
> > the Korean /o/, which is somewhat higher/closer than the American 
one,
> > sounds to me like /u/, so I "hear" 미우나 구우나 /miuna kuuna/. 
Conversely, when I
> > pronounce it, I aim too low and they think I'm saying 미우나 거우나 /miuna 
kɔuna/.
> >
> > So my question to you experts is, how can I make faster progress 
training
> > my ear? I already know a certain amount of practice is required; 
what I'm
> > asking is how I can make the best use of that time so that each hour 
of
> > practice affords the maximum benefit.
> >
> > Thanks much.
> >
> > --
> > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> > --
> > Paul B. Gallagher
> > pbg translations, inc.
> > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> > http://pbg-translations.com
> >
> > 
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------------------------------------

Melissa T. Smith, Professor
Department of Foreign Languages and 
Literatures  
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, OH 44555
Tel: (330)941-3462

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