Equivalent to "corny"? Any suggestions?

[John Lyles]

Dear All,

I would also be interested in learning how the list would translate "dude"
in the sentence Mark proposed.  I have a copy of The Big Lebowski with
Russian subtitles, but I seem to remember the film translates The Dude as
Дуд (dud) or something along those lines.

Sincerely,
John
2010/7/26 Alex Shafarenko <A.Shafarenko at herts.ac.uk>

> John, Anne-Marrie, Melissa, and Maureen,
>
> The issue, I believe, is more subtle than one might think. It all depends
> on the stylistic context and the narrative
> situation -- and, as I said, a word by itself can rarely be translated out
> of context.
>
> First, John. Yes, indeed "банальный" would do, as in: "банальное любовное
> послание". However, the word corny according to Mr Webster
> has the undertones of mawkishness and sentimentality, which is why I
> mentioned a corny movie to illustrate the sense in which
> the word was used in the original. Банальный does not AT ALL convey this in
> Russian. It is rather unemotional. For instance,
> a problem could have "банальное решение", i.e. a most straightforward,
> uninspired and uncontroversial one. As regards пошлый, yes,
> it has the connotation you mentioned, too: "пошлая шутка" is precisely a
> salacious joke. However, a very common apology: "простите,
> я волнуюсь и говорю пошлости", literally sorry, I am nervous and talk
> banalities, to a girl -- after you say to her that her teeth are like
> pearls, or her
> lips are red corals, or some other mawkish nonsense -- demonstrates that
> the word "пошлость" does not necessarily presuppose vulgarity
> or salaciousness. In fact, this particular context demonstrates another
> side of the rich (and barely translatable) semantic spectrum of it:
> ostentatious bad taste.  "Пошлость" may or may not  be vulgar, obscene,
> etc., but it is always in incredibly bad taste or it is
> not "пошлость" at all. That is why I am certain that the word "пошлый" fits
> the original context perfectly.
>
> To Anne-Marie: Google translation sucks, for instance flimsy has nothing to
> do with пошлый, while platitudinous (although seems
> very weak and too formal/pompous) has some connection.
>
> To Melissa: if I am not mistaken, corny has two different connotations:
>  what you mentioned and the one referred to above. While being
> linked etymologically, they are otherwise seem completely disconnected in
> parlance; otherwise calling a Hollywood tear-jerker corny
> would not be correct in most cases. Indeed, if the context of the original
> example suggests that the golden silk simile is a provincial,
> peasant turn of a phrase, not just a trivial sappy, overblown compliment,
> then I am completely wrong and my position
> should be ignored, or rather used as an example of how translation is
> perilous without knowing the fullest possible
> context of the original.
>
> To Maureen: having spoken the language in question for well-nigh 50 years,
> I may be as well versed in it as any. Colloquial
> words for lame in the sense (of something intended to be entertaining)
> uninspired and dull are тоскливый, занудный, etc.
> None of them in my judgement can qualify a mawkish love letter. Or at least
> I can't imagine how it could.
> Having said that, I am not particularly familiar with Russian teenagers'
> jargon du jour...
>
> Regards,
>
> Alex
>
> Prof Alex Shafarenko
> University of Hertfordshire
> Hatfield, AL10 9AB, UK
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > From: John Dunn <j.dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 13:45:50 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Re: Equivalent to "corny"? Any suggestions?
> >
> >
> > I wouldn't disagree with any of this, but if you take Z.E. Aleksandrova's
> Slovar' sinonimov russkogo jazyka (my copy was published by Sovetskaja
> entsiklopedija in 1968, but there may be other editions) and look up
> банальный [banal'nyj], you will be offered seventeen suggestions, several of
> which may be appropriate.   Curiously, if you look up пошлый [pošlyj], you
> are offered only вульгарный [vul'garnyj] and a cross-reference to
> непристойный [nepristojnyj], neither of which is helpful here.
> >
> > John Dunn.
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> > From: anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 13:54:03 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Re: Equivalent to "corny"? Any suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> > A quick check on the much-maligned google translate will give
> platitudinous and flimsy as definitions of пошлый which seem in line with
> Nabokov's description and which therefore could relate to corny
> >
>
>
>
>
> >
> > From: Melissa Smith <mtsmith02 at YSU.EDU>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 17:24:01 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Fwd: Re: [SEELANGS] Equivalent to "corny"? Any
> suggestions?
> >
> >
> > I think "corny" doesn't have as negative overtones as the options here
> > suggest.  It is closer to клише, провиннциальный - I think of someone
> > with cornsilk in their hair, a "hayseed."
> >
> > As Nellie Forbush sings in "South Pacific": "I'm as corny as Kansas in
> > August" - there must be a Russian pop-culture equivalent!
> >
> > Melissa Smith
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: "Riley, Maureen Ms CIV USA DLI-W" <maureen.riley at US.ARMY.MIL>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 17:37:47 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Corny (UNCLASSIFIED)
> >
> >
> > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> > Caveats: NONE
> >
> > The context suggests "lame".  Surely there is someone out there
> > well-versed in contemporary Russian slang who has an equivalent for
> > that.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> > From: "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 17:58:59 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [SEELANGS] Equivalent to "corny"? Any
> suggestions?
> >
> >
> > Melissa Smith wrote:
> >
> >> I think "corny" doesn't have as negative overtones as the options here
> >> suggest.  It is closer to клише, провиннциальный - I think of someone
> >> with cornsilk in their hair, a "hayseed."
> >>
> >> As Nellie Forbush sings in "South Pacific": "I'm as corny as Kansas in
> >> August" - there must be a Russian pop-culture equivalent!
> >
> > I've also seen/heard "corny" used in a sense very close to "sappy" --
> > sickeningly sweet, implausibly romantic, overdramatic like theater
> > makeup compared to everyday makeup. In that sense it does contrast with
> > the jaded big-city ways of doing things.
> >
> > --
> > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> > --
> > Paul B. Gallagher
> > pbg translations, inc.
> > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> > http://pbg-translations.com
> >
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