Equivalent to "corny"? Any suggestions?

Tue Jul 27 10:05:20 UTC 2010

Dear Alex,

I agree that google translate sucks and as you may have seen from previous postings, I am not a great fan of literal dictionary translations in general.  Intensive training should be given before people are allowed near dictionaries.  You should be taught to consider the context - the who, what, why, where and when - first.  A translation without human intervention, i.e. google, or even worse dictionary.com, is of course an abomination.  I just wanted to make a point that connection between Пошлость and platitudes is so well-established that even google has it!

AM

> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:53:34 +0100
> From: A.Shafarenko at HERTS.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Equivalent to "corny"? Any suggestions?
> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> 
> John, Anne-Marrie, Melissa, and Maureen,
> 
> The issue, I believe, is more subtle than one might think. It all depends on the stylistic context and the narrative
> situation -- and, as I said, a word by itself can rarely be translated out of context. 
> 
> First, John. Yes, indeed "банальный" would do, as in: "банальное любовное послание". However, the word corny according to Mr Webster
> has the undertones of mawkishness and sentimentality, which is why I mentioned a corny movie to illustrate the sense in which
> the word was used in the original. Банальный does not AT ALL convey this in Russian. It is rather unemotional. For instance, 
> a problem could have "банальное решение", i.e. a most straightforward, uninspired and uncontroversial one. As regards пошлый, yes, 
> it has the connotation you mentioned, too: "пошлая шутка" is precisely a salacious joke. However, a very common apology: "простите, 
> я волнуюсь и говорю пошлости", literally sorry, I am nervous and talk banalities, to a girl -- after you say to her that her teeth are like pearls, or her 
> lips are red corals, or some other mawkish nonsense -- demonstrates that the word "пошлость" does not necessarily presuppose vulgarity 
> or salaciousness. In fact, this particular context demonstrates another side of the rich (and barely translatable) semantic spectrum of it: 
> ostentatious bad taste. "Пошлость" may or may not be vulgar, obscene, etc., but it is always in incredibly bad taste or it is 
> not "пошлость" at all. That is why I am certain that the word "пошлый" fits the original context perfectly.
> 
> To Anne-Marie: Google translation sucks, for instance flimsy has nothing to do with пошлый, while platitudinous (although seems 
> very weak and too formal/pompous) has some connection.
> 
> To Melissa: if I am not mistaken, corny has two different connotations: what you mentioned and the one referred to above. While being 
> linked etymologically, they are otherwise seem completely disconnected in parlance; otherwise calling a Hollywood tear-jerker corny 
> would not be correct in most cases. Indeed, if the context of the original example suggests that the golden silk simile is a provincial, 
> peasant turn of a phrase, not just a trivial sappy, overblown compliment, then I am completely wrong and my position 
> should be ignored, or rather used as an example of how translation is perilous without knowing the fullest possible 
> context of the original. 
> 
> To Maureen: having spoken the language in question for well-nigh 50 years, I may be as well versed in it as any. Colloquial 
> words for lame in the sense (of something intended to be entertaining) uninspired and dull are тоскливый, занудный, etc.
> None of them in my judgement can qualify a mawkish love letter. Or at least I can't imagine how it could. 
> Having said that, I am not particularly familiar with Russian teenagers' jargon du jour...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alex
> 
> Prof Alex Shafarenko
> University of Hertfordshire
> Hatfield, AL10 9AB, UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > From: John Dunn <j.dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 13:45:50 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Re: Equivalent to "corny"? Any suggestions?
> > 
> > 
> > I wouldn't disagree with any of this, but if you take Z.E. Aleksandrova's Slovar' sinonimov russkogo jazyka (my copy was published by Sovetskaja entsiklopedija in 1968, but there may be other editions) and look up банальный [banal'nyj], you will be offered seventeen suggestions, several of which may be appropriate. Curiously, if you look up пошлый [pošlyj], you are offered only вульгарный [vul'garnyj] and a cross-reference to непристойный [nepristojnyj], neither of which is helpful here.
> > 
> > John Dunn.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> > 
> > From: anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 13:54:03 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Re: Equivalent to "corny"? Any suggestions?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > A quick check on the much-maligned google translate will give platitudinous and flimsy as definitions of пошлый which seem in line with Nabokov's description and which therefore could relate to corny
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > From: Melissa Smith <mtsmith02 at YSU.EDU>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 17:24:01 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Fwd: Re: [SEELANGS] Equivalent to "corny"? Any suggestions?
> > 
> > 
> > I think "corny" doesn't have as negative overtones as the options here
> > suggest. It is closer to клише, провиннциальный - I think of someone
> > with cornsilk in their hair, a "hayseed."
> > 
> > As Nellie Forbush sings in "South Pacific": "I'm as corny as Kansas in
> > August" - there must be a Russian pop-culture equivalent!
> > 
> > Melissa Smith
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: "Riley, Maureen Ms CIV USA DLI-W" <maureen.riley at US.ARMY.MIL>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 17:37:47 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Corny (UNCLASSIFIED)
> > 
> > 
> > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> > Caveats: NONE
> > 
> > The context suggests "lame". Surely there is someone out there
> > well-versed in contemporary Russian slang who has an equivalent for
> > that.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
> > Date: 26 July 2010 17:58:59 GMT+01:00
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [SEELANGS] Equivalent to "corny"? Any suggestions?
> > 
> > 
> > Melissa Smith wrote:
> > 
> >> I think "corny" doesn't have as negative overtones as the options here
> >> suggest. It is closer to клише, провиннциальный - I think of someone
> >> with cornsilk in their hair, a "hayseed."
> >> 
> >> As Nellie Forbush sings in "South Pacific": "I'm as corny as Kansas in
> >> August" - there must be a Russian pop-culture equivalent!
> > 
> > I've also seen/heard "corny" used in a sense very close to "sappy" --
> > sickeningly sweet, implausibly romantic, overdramatic like theater
> > makeup compared to everyday makeup. In that sense it does contrast with
> > the jaded big-city ways of doing things.
> > 
> > --
> > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> > --
> > Paul B. Gallagher
> > pbg translations, inc.
> > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> > http://pbg-translations.com
> > 
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