65-letie dnya pobedy

[FRISON Philippe]

Just for historic propriety (in English at least),
In departure from what is (still) written in Russian, the Soviets never fought against 
"fascism" for the simple reason that fascism was an Italian internal system which had no 
bearing on Soviet Union except may be for the Rapallo treaty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Rapallo,_1922)
by which Stalin helped Germany to circumvent the ban on arms control imposed after the First 
World War.

For me it is even questionable that the Soviets fought Nazism, as they carried out a bitter 
fight against German armies which invaded their land (and paid a dear price for that), but 
certainly against the system as such, as discrimination against Jews and other minorities 
went on after the war in Soviet Union.

It is true to say that Nazism was is the ideology which led Germany attack neighbouring 
countries (especially those with a German minority), but as exemplified by Vassily Grossman, 
Nazism and Stalinism had much in common.

The Alsatians (of which I am) too fought against Germany definitely not against fascism. 

As a Westerner, I am always puzzled when Russian friends send me wishes on "Pobeda day", 
as for me it is not a victory day, but rather a day of mourning at the end of a bloody war, 
the wounds of which (and of Europe division) are still not completely healed.

Unfortunately Mitterrand thought of it somehow differently and made May 8th a public holiday 
in France because of this doubtful "victory".

Hoping not to start another debate (please answer if needed off-list).

Philippe Frison
(Strasbourg, France)


-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of /Elena Baraban/
Sent: Monday 10 May 2010 17:19
To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] 65-letie dnya pobedy


   I wish to comment on yesterday's messages.

   I find it strange that in North America, a discussion of what the  
Victory Day still means for people (most?/many? people) from the  
former USSR, immediately becomes an opportunity of framing these  
people's sentiments in terms of Stalinism or neo-Stalinism.

   Yesterday, many of my friends (people between 28-70 years old) who had left the Soviet Union or Russia long time ago or were born somewhere in outside Russia from parents of the post-1917 immigration got together, called each other or at east sent e-mails to mark the V-Day... What does Stalinism have to do with it? Maybe instead of labling war experience that makes sense to Russians (and non-Russians) of different generations as myth it's time we find a slightly different framework for discussing war narratives, old and new?

   I have no idea what's the source of the information posted below  
re: the Russians' complete unaware of the American and British  
participation in th war against Hitler... But I do remember watching a  
documentary that featured interviews with college students from US who  
were completely unaware of the Soviet contribution to the victory over  
fascism. One of these people even stated that the war was actually  
between US and the USSR...

   On V-E Day (8 May) a Candian radio station mentioned celebrations of V-E Day in Ottawa, London, Washington, and New York, and about the veterans...  And not a single word of how the Victory Day is celebrated in the former USSR... As if the Cold-war mentality is to stay here forever...

   Regards,

   Elena

   At Sun, 9 May 2010 17:13:39 -0400, Alina Israeli wrote:

> ?????, ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ? ????? ?? 70, ????? ???????, ??
> ??? ????? ???????? (?? ?????? ?????????? ??????????), ? ?????? ???
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>
> "????????? ???????, ??? ?????? ? ??????? ????????????? ????? ???????
> ???????? ??? ???????????? ????."
> (http://www.rg.ru/2010/04/27/predstoyanie.html[1]) ? ??? ???.
>
> ??? ???? ??????????? ??????? ?????? ????????, ??? ????????? ?
> ?????????? ????????? ? WWII, ?? ???????? ???? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????,
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>
>
> Elena Gapova wrote:
>> ? ???? ??????!
>>
>> ??????? ????? ????????? ?? ????? ?????????????? ?????????, ?????? ??? ??? -
>> ?? ??? ??? "?????".
>>
>>
>>
>
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>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/[2]
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Links:
------
[1] http://www.rg.ru/2010/04/27/predstoyanie.html
[2] http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/


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