Thanks - and another skazka question
Robert Chandler
kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM
Mon Sep 13 09:34:51 UTC 2010
Dear Josh and all,
Register does, of course, matter, as well as accuracy. Nothing would induce
me to have a peasant in a folk tale talking about "Russian crepes" - whether
for a British or for an American audience!
Though I shall certainly try to remember your suggestion in case I need to
translate 'bliny' in some other context.
Many thanks both to you and to Will Ryan for your very informative messages!
All the best,
R.
> This is interesting - and something I did not know. Thanks. I suppose then,
> for Chandler's largely British audience (I assume) that his translation is
> fine.
>
> For an American audience, pancake is a very specific food - it's thick, round,
> usually eaten with a fork. Russians usually refer to them as oladushki when
> they see them (although the oladushki I've eaten here tend to be fairly
> greasy, which doesn't happen with the specific American pancake).
>
> As oladushki and blini are very separate foods in the Russian mind, the
> translation of pancakes to blini has always struck me as wholly inaccurate.
> When describing the food for an American audience, I've found that "Russian
> crepe" tends to be the most effective and forming a proper image in the mind
> of someone that has never seen a blin. The crepe and the blin are much more
> similar in appearance, although the blin is a very specific Russian dish (and
> not exactly like the egg-rich crepe in taste or consistency)...
>
> When describing the pancakes of my homeland in Russia, I usually call them
> "amerikanskie oladushki." This addition of national adjectives seems to be
> much more common in Russian, by the way. Tortillas are sold here with
> "meksikanskie lepyoski" written on their packaging...
>
> Incidentally, "fritter" in American English usually denotes that the product
> is fried (often deep fried) rather than any particular filling... I wonder if
> the tortilla would count as a pancake in England as well...
>
>
> Josh Wilson
> Assistant Director
> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
> Editor in Chief
> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
> SRAS.org
> jwilson at sras.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of William Ryan
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:37 AM
> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Thanks - and another skazka question
>
> Just depends where you live, both for English speakers and for Russian
> speakers. In Britain 'pancake' would be the only translation - it is
> generic for several kinds of flat fried batter, from large thin crepes
> to smaller fat Scottish pancakes - the recipes can vary widely. The
> bliny I have eaten, and helped to make, in Russia were mostly like
> English or French pancakes except that they were often, though not
> always, made with yeast. I have had them made from both wheat and rye
> flour, and I would say that many Russians don't distinguish between
> bliny and blinchiki and may use both words for the same object.
>
> See Oxford Engl. Dict.:
> *pancake. a.* A thin flat cake of batter, fried on both sides in a pan.
> In Britain made without a raising agent, and similar to a crêpe (cf.
> CRÊPE
> <http://0-dictionary.oed.com.catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/cgi/crossref?query_type
> =word&queryword=pancake&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=aW7c-
> 7WLMH5-5208&result_place=2&xrefword=crepe&ps=n.>
> /n./ 3); in N. America made with a raising agent, and similar to a drop
> scone or Scotch pancake (cf. /drop-scone/ n. at SCONE
> <http://0-dictionary.oed.com.catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/cgi/crossref?query_type
> =word&queryword=pancake&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=aW7c-
> 7WLMH5-5208&result_place=2&xrefword=scone&ps=n.>
> /n./ 1 and /Scotch pancake/ n. at SCOTCH
> <http://0-dictionary.oed.com.catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/cgi/crossref?query_type
> =word&queryword=pancake&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=aW7c-
> 7WLMH5-5208&result_place=2&xrefword=Scotch&homonym_no=3>
> /adj. /and/ n./^3 Special uses 1).
>
> I think that 'pancake' in England is sufficiently non-precise that it
> would also translate olad'i, although if there is any filling added that
> would more probably be a 'fritter'. There are probably lots of regional
> variants in England; don't know about English as used in other parts of
> the world.
>
> Personally I like to use a fairly liquid mixture of wheat and rye flour,
> with just a little sugar and yeast, to be fried in a pan when the yeast
> is just beginning to work. If you can serve them with caviar and butter
> and flat parsley - wonderful! My children have always preferred the more
> English mixture of wheat flour, milk and egg, a softer kind of dish.
>
> Will
>
>
> On 12/09/2010 20:56, Josh Wilson wrote:
>> I've actually always been annoyed by folks who translate "bliny" as
>> "pancakes."
>>
>> Pancakes and bliny bear almost no semblance to each other - neither in how
>> they look, taste, feel in the mouth, nor in how they are usually eaten.
>>
>> It's kinda like translating "Kanadets" as "American" because, you know,
>> that's close enough. If the basket contained kholodets, would we call that
>> "jello?"
>>
>> Just my two cents...
>>
>> Josh Wilson
>> Assistant Director
>> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
>> Editor in Chief
>> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
>> SRAS.org
>> jwilson at sras.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic& East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
>> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:33 PM
>> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Thanks - and another skazka question
>>
>> Edward,
>>
>>> You use "pancakes" and I am not sure what they use in your original.
>>> The version that I have mentioned uses "�������."
>>> I would think that you version uses "��������."
>>> If so, it would not necessarily agree with the comment made by Will Ryan.
>> My version, from a collection edited by Pomerantseva, gives 'bliny'. But
>> there are pirozhki in the basket too.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> R.
>>
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