Thanks - and another skazka question

William Ryan wfr at SAS.AC.UK
Mon Sep 13 10:44:18 UTC 2010 

  Interesting that tortillas are sold to Russians as "meksikanskie 
lepyoshki". This is presumably because Russia has imported the product, 
or recipe, from the US.
The British, for whom Spain is a major holiday destination and 
retirement home, not to mention a refuge for fugitives from the law, 
would quite probably nowadays call a tortilla a tortilla, and they would 
probably mean a thick potato omelette made with sliced potatoes lightly 
boiled in olive oil and then cooked in a pan in layers with beaten egg. 
At one time it might have been called a Spanish omelette, but that term 
was also used in cheap restaurants to denote a  revolting omelette 
filled with diced frozen vegetables, mostly peas.
I think a tortilla in Mexico and the US may be different - but I have 
never had one.
A fritter in Britain is pan-fried, often with sliced apple or banana, or 
other filling, like olad'i as I have had them. An English school lunch 
during World War II could include, on a good day, Spam or corned beef 
fritters. I think English fritters are essentially the same as Russian 
olad'i, although the latter often include yeast.
Context is everything.
Will

On 13/09/2010 10:03, Josh Wilson wrote:
> This is interesting - and something I did not know. Thanks. I suppose then, for Chandler's largely British audience (I assume) that his translation is fine.
>
> For an American audience, pancake is a very specific food - it's thick, round, usually eaten with a fork. Russians usually refer to them as oladushki when they see them (although the oladushki I've eaten here tend to be fairly greasy, which doesn't happen with the specific American pancake).
>
> As oladushki and blini are very separate foods in the Russian mind, the translation of pancakes to blini has always struck me as wholly inaccurate. When describing the food for an American audience, I've found that "Russian crepe" tends to be the most effective and forming a proper image in the mind of someone that has never seen a blin. The crepe and the blin are much more similar in appearance, although the blin is a very specific Russian dish (and not exactly like the egg-rich crepe in taste or consistency)...
>
> When describing the pancakes of my homeland in Russia, I usually call them "amerikanskie oladushki." This addition of national adjectives seems to be much more common in Russian, by the way. Tortillas are sold here with "meksikanskie lepyoski" written on their packaging...
>
> Incidentally, "fritter" in American English usually denotes that the product is fried (often deep fried) rather than any particular filling... I wonder if the tortilla would count as a pancake in England as well...
>
>
> Josh Wilson
> Assistant Director
> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
> Editor in Chief
> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
> SRAS.org
> jwilson at sras.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of William Ryan
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 1:37 AM
> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Thanks - and another skazka question
>
>    Just depends where you live, both for English speakers and for Russian
> speakers. In Britain 'pancake' would be the only translation - it is
> generic for several kinds of flat fried batter, from large thin crepes
> to smaller fat Scottish pancakes - the recipes can vary widely. The
> bliny I have eaten, and helped to make, in Russia were mostly like
> English or French pancakes except that they were often, though not
> always, made with yeast. I have had them made from both wheat and rye
> flour, and I would say that many Russians don't distinguish between
> bliny and blinchiki and may use both words for the same object.
>
> See Oxford Engl. Dict.:
> *pancake. a.* A thin flat cake of batter, fried on both sides in a pan.
> In Britain made without a raising agent, and similar to a crêpe (cf.
> CRÊPE
> <http://0-dictionary.oed.com.catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=pancake&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=aW7c-7WLMH5-5208&result_place=2&xrefword=crepe&ps=n.>
> /n./ 3); in N. America made with a raising agent, and similar to a drop
> scone or Scotch pancake (cf. /drop-scone/ n. at SCONE
> <http://0-dictionary.oed.com.catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=pancake&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=aW7c-7WLMH5-5208&result_place=2&xrefword=scone&ps=n.>
> /n./ 1 and /Scotch pancake/ n. at SCOTCH
> <http://0-dictionary.oed.com.catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=pancake&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=aW7c-7WLMH5-5208&result_place=2&xrefword=Scotch&homonym_no=3>
> /adj. /and/ n./^3 Special uses 1).
>
> I think that 'pancake' in England is sufficiently non-precise that it
> would also translate olad'i, although if there is any filling added that
> would more probably be a 'fritter'. There are probably lots of regional
> variants in England; don't know about English as used in other parts of
> the world.
>
> Personally I like to use a fairly liquid mixture of wheat and rye flour,
> with just a little sugar and yeast, to be fried in a pan  when the yeast
> is just beginning to work. If you can serve them with caviar and butter
> and flat parsley - wonderful! My children have always preferred the more
> English mixture of wheat flour, milk and egg, a softer kind of dish.
>
> Will
>
>
> On 12/09/2010 20:56, Josh Wilson wrote:
>> I've actually always been annoyed by folks who translate "bliny" as
>> "pancakes."
>>
>> Pancakes and bliny bear almost no semblance to each other - neither in how
>> they look, taste, feel in the mouth, nor in how they are usually eaten.
>>
>> It's kinda like translating "Kanadets" as "American" because, you know,
>> that's close enough. If the basket contained kholodets, would we call that
>> "jello?"
>>
>> Just my two cents...
>>
>> Josh Wilson
>> Assistant Director
>> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
>> Editor in Chief
>> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
>> SRAS.org
>> jwilson at sras.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&   East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
>> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:33 PM
>> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Thanks - and another skazka question
>>
>> Edward,
>>
>>> You use "pancakes" and I am not sure what they use in your original.
>>> The version that I have mentioned uses "�������."
>>> I would think that you version uses "��������."
>>> If so, it would not necessarily agree with the comment made by Will Ryan.
>> My version, from a collection edited by Pomerantseva, gives 'bliny'.  But
>> there are pirozhki in the basket too.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> R.
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>     options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                       http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>     options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                       http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>    options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                      http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>    options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                      http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

More information about the SEELANG mailing list