FW: [SEELANGS] Tsar'-devitsa - Не честь–хвала

[Boris Dralyuk]

Dear Robert and all,

I don't know whether the following goes without saying, but I know with some certainty that "Не честь–хвала да молодецкая!" is a fixed epithet reflecting a bogatyr's shame in many bylinas.  Pace this from "Илья Муромец в ссоре с князем Владимиром":

«А не честь-хвала да молодецкая
Сидеть русскому могучему богатырю
С голью кабацкою, с нищетой бедняцкою, [...]»

So here, "не честь-хвала" is unambiguously a negation - our hero is "бесчестный" and "непохвальный", keeping such company.  The scene also recalls your fairytale's Ivan-Tsarevich, incognito  "с удальцами на ряду."

I hope that helps a bit!

Yours,
Boris

-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Chandler <kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
>Sent: Sep 27, 2010 1:30 PM
>To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
>Subject: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] Tsar'-devitsa - Не честь–хвала
>
>Olgajan,
>
>Here is what I wrote originally:
>
>Ivan Tsarevich is overwhelmed by the beauty of the sleeping Marya-Krasa,
>Dolga Kosa.  And so
>“Что мне не честь!” разгорелось у молодца ретивое сердце.
>
>And then he waters his horse at her well.
>
>            *
>
>I NOW understand this as "Is not this an honour for me?"  And it IS an
>honour for him.  She is someone very special (a niece of Baba Yaga!!), and
>at the end of the story he will marry her and live with her in the
>podsolnechnoe tsarstvo.
>
>Rx
>
>
>------ Forwarded Message
>From: Olga Meerson <meersono at georgetown.edu>
>Reply-To: seelangs <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 16:21:57 -0400
>To: seelangs <SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Tsar'-devitsa - Не  честь–хвала
>
>Robertjan, Re:
>"Не честь–хвала да молодецкая! - в дорожку был справивши не в вестимую,
>получил своего батюшка вси прихоти, и - буде поискать свого родного братца,
>Дмитрия-царевича!" 
>
>What is the PREVIOUS context for the expression? Negations (e.g., as listed
>similes) may have a non-negated effect in Russian folklore (e.g.. ьл не
>ветер ветку клонит, не дубравушка шумит--то мое сердечко стонет, как осенний
>лист дрожит), and in fact, the same semantic shade WOULD be present in the
>"CHEM mne ne chest'?", as a rhetorical question. But NOT IN ALL
>contexts--certainly, not in chto mne beschest'e?! Negations, even if a given
>sequence of words containing them is the exact same, may mean very different
>thongs depending on the context OF that syntax--what surrounds it.
>
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