poedyvaet

[Josh Pennington]

Dear John,
   See the comment I made above about analogical extension. It really is as
simple as that. With no length in Russian, we end up with one phoneme /e/
as the outcome of four PS phonemes: /e/, *jat', */e:/, /e/, and the short *jer
*(under stress as /o/). In short, this made all sorts of analogical
developments possible.  What Stuart was saying is that the the *jeb- *root
already has the /e/ > /o/ alternation in all cases where the /e/ is
stressed; i.e. it has undergone systemic analogical reanalysis.  поёдывать,
on the other hand, as far as we know, is the lone instance of /e/ > /o/ for
this particular lexeme, suggesting that it is probably fairly new and
likely not linked to the same analogical process that was involved with *
jeb-*, but more generally with /e/ > /o/ under stress. The semantic
renalysis of  поёдывать is likely the native speaker's way of dealing with
lexical doublets by coloring one of the set in a special way.

Best,
  Josh

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 10:26 AM, John Dunn <John.Dunn at glasgow.ac.uk> wrote:

> I think that it does work if you accept that поёдывать [pojodyvat'], being
> facetious, is a transgressive form, in that works by applying the right
> logic in the wrong place.   In which case the parallel is simpler:
> if from поебать [pojebat'] you can form поёбывать [pojobyvat'], then from
> поедать [pojedat'] it should be possible to form поёдывать [pojodyvat'].
>  It probably helps that any close parallels that would counter this
> 'logic', such as the поедовать [pojedovat] mentioned by Will Ryan are few
> in number and rare.
>
> Curiously the pair поёдывать/поёдываю [pojodyvat'/pojodyvaju] and
> поедовать/поедую [pojedovat'/pojeduju] reproduces one of the features that
> distinguished Russian and Church Slavonic at the turn of the seventeenth
> and eighteenth centuries, as reflected, for example, in Polikarpov's
> Leksikon trejazyčnyj.  I somehow doubt, however, that this impinges on the
> linguistic consciousness of present-day Russians of a facetious cast of
> mind.
>
> John Dunn.
> ________________________________________
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [
> SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Goldberg, Stuart H [
> stuart.goldberg at MODLANGS.GATECH.EDU]
> Sent: 04 September 2012 15:32
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] poedyvaet
>
> I don't think this does the trick. All the imperfective/iterative
> derivatives from that root have a ё (cf. выёбываешься =
> выпендриваешься), as do many noun derivatives. Note also the ё in ёб,
> which, I recall from an article by Uspensky, is an archaic masculine
> past tense. In the case of есть, such parallels don't come to mind.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Dunn" <John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK>
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 5:57:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] poedyvaet
>
> What we do not know, because this is not the sort of verb that gets itself
> into dictionaries, is whether the verb was coined as поедывать and changed
> later into поёдывать, or whether it has existed only with ё.  I strongly
> suspect the latter, in which case we are looking for a model, and I would
> propose for that honour another facetious verb that has eluded dictionaries
> only to be captured by the all-seeing algorithms of Dr Google, namely
> поёбывать.  Though others who move in more refined circles than I seem to
> do might be able to suggest other possibilities.
>
> John Dunn.
> ________________________________________
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                     http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



-- 
James Joshua Pennington, Ph.D.
Slavic and Eastern European
Languages and Literatures
The Ohio State University

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/seelang/attachments/20120904/b6d82afc/attachment.html>