Ukraine/The Ukraine

Thu Jun 19 14:31:23 UTC 2014

Thanks again. Interesting to see that Czech was asked to change the preposition. I presume this happened in Polish as well. 
Equally of interest is that the change in name was requested in English before it was in Russia.
AM

From: Rita.Kindlerova at nkp.cz
To: anne_mariedevlin at hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 09:19:05 +0000

Hello Anne Marie,
Czech language has no articles, so we – thanks God – have not such a problem. But last couple of years we are very often attacked from sides of many Ukrainians
 to use „v Ukrajině“ (in Ukraine) instead of „na Ukrajině“, even the Czech grammar doesn´t allow it, same as „jedu v Ukrajinu/do Ukrajiny“ instead of „jedu na Ukrajinu“ etc.
F.e. Czech ambassy in Kiev under such a pressure changed 2 years ago its letterhead from „na Ukrajině“ to „v Ukrajině“.
We must also very often explain (but without results) that toponymums like Kyjev, Lvov, Černovice… didn´t come to our language via Russian, but were accepted
 during history via Polish or some other languages, or they just correspond with Czech pronunciation. And there would be terrible problems after all with declinations… Which these "patriots" are not able to understand.
Even all Ukrainians who live in our country and are insisting on using „v Ukrajině“ etc are using „na Ukrajině“ etc, because it´s phonetically „friendly“.
Kind regards

Mgr. Rita Kindlerová

Národní knihovna ČR - Slovanská knihovna
National Library CR
- Slavonic Library

Klementinum
190

110 00 Praha 1

Česká republika/Czech Republic

Tel.: +420 221 663 360
e-mail:
rita.kindlerova at nkp.cz
http://www.nkp.cz

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of anne marie devlin

Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 11:52 PM

To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

Dear all

Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William

Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:

Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.

«В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из
 Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства,
 поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)

I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government
 request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?

Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?

Best

Anne Marie

From:
anne_mariedevlin at hotmail.com

To: oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com

Subject: RE: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:49:30 +0100

Dear all

Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William

Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:

Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.

«В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из
 Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства,
 поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)

I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government
 request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?

Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?

Best

Anne Marie

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 10:26:02 -0700

From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM

Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Dear Anne Marie,

'The Ukraine' was when Ukraine was a part of the USSR. From 1991(!) Ukraine(!) is an independent state.

With regards,

Oleksandr Spirin 

On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:39 PM, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM>
 wrote:

Dear Seelangers

Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but would be very
 grateful for  precise information on this as I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Thanks in advance

Anne Marie

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