"Saone" [Mar 1956]
cbloom at ozemail.com.au
Wed Aug 9 18:17:32 UTC 2006
Hello John, Thank you very much for that thorough & scholarly reply.
Etymology (especially distinguishing the "folk" from the genuine
variety) is somewhat of a quicksand, it seems! Clearly, in this case,
it requires a much more profound & extensive knowledge of Siouan
languages, than I possess, (or am ever likely to)! But I am afflicted
with an inveterate curiosity, and can ask questions "till the cows
come home", I'm afraid. In fact, I probably couched my question
clumsily there : All I was wondering was, how come Dorsey would rely
on a Hunkpapa (Teton) informant for the etymology of a Lower
Yanktonai band-name (SaN-ona), with a Yanktonai sub-dialect
diminutive (-na) [if that is what it is] . I wondered also whether
that could possibly indicate some connection with the Teton term
"Saone", (which, as we know, included the Hunkpapas)? But I see that
I also managed to garble what Dorsey actually wrote in his posthumous
paper : "SaN-ona", Shot-at-some-white-object; this name originated
from killing an albino buffalo; a Hunkpapa chief said that refugees
or strangers from another tribe were so called." (BAE-B 15;
[1893-94]; p.218). I know that this may indeed be spurious as you
say, and proves nothing, and that my query is probably unanswerable,
but I just thought J.O. Dorsey's statement seemed a little odd in
that place! He doesn't mention the term "Saone" at all under his
section on the "TitoNwaN" in the same paper (pp.218-221). Thanks
again for the information. Regards, Clive Bloomfield.
On 08/08/2006, at 4:33 AM, Koontz John E wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Aug 2006, Clive Bloomfield wrote:
>> Question : I wonder whether the etymology of the name of the "SaN
>> [saN ?ona] band of the Lower Yanktonai, as mentioned by J.O.
>> Dorsey in
>> 1897 (quoted in my prev. post), regarding which he there says,
>> curiously, that a HUNKPAPA informant told him meant "little [-na]
>> whitish [saN-] shooter [-?o-]" , or someone who shot at something
>> (albino buffalo?) and thereby incurred exile, might have been in
>> any way
>> connected with "Saone"? Regards, Clive Bloomfield.
> The term may well be connected, but the etymology may be more or less
> spurious, too. Wouldn't the diminutive be =la in Teton? And, I
> think it
> is generally only =na in Santee after nasal vowels. Elsewhere it
> is =daN.
> If the form is =na(N) here, then we'd have to assume saNuN=na(N).
> not sure what the diminutive is in Stoney and Assiniboine at the
> though I think it was been explained to me fairly recently by Linda
> I think there are maybe two problems with the post 1850 etymologies
> of the
> form. One is that the individuals asked were not familiar with
> s^ahaN ~
> s^aaN 'Sioux' as a possible explanation; the other is that they were
> hearing the term for the first time from the questioner, who wasn't
> necessarily clear on how to pronounce it.
> One of the things that strikes me about the available literature on
> divisions and band names in general, is how much of it depends on
> and one or two others and their theories of how things were to be
> analyzed. Because the same views are expressed in a number of
> published sources, one has the impression they were widely
> but on further consideration, it appears that the majority of the
> trace back to the same group of people. And the number seven seems
> suspiciously frequent.
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