ingvild.roald at STATPED.NO
Tue Jul 15 17:34:40 UTC 2003
Thanks, Valerie, for putting those shapes in - I distinctly remeber asking
you for them, or something similar: I was talking of the handshape you get
when you have all fingers straight and apart, and can put all the
fingetips on a flat surface (it is in there now, thank you again). I also
asked about this 'thumbb perpendicular to palm' as oppose to 'thumb in
same plane as palm'. This may have been at the same time that the
Parkhursts were asking for the shapes. So yes, they are needed in NSL.
SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA skriver:
>July 15, 2003
>Hello Everyone, and Ingvild...
>The dot for the thumb forward is not new...in 1995 I created the symbol
>set that we are using today in SignWriter DOS...at that time it was SW
>4.3...and the Parkhursts in Spain were the first to receive that
>version...I specifically put in those symbols for the Parkhursts,
>because they needed a series of handshapes with the thumb forward...and
>they had to be distinctly different than when the thumb is projecting
>Although these are not new symbols, you may never need them in
>Norwegian Sign Language, so if your language doesn't use a thumb
>forward, then there is no need for you to include those handshapes in
>your Norwegian lessons...there are lots of hands in the listing that I
>would not use to write ASL too, and those are some of them...I put them
>in specifically for Spain...
>Meanwhile, we could always use the thumb as a dot, whenever the thumb
>comes directly at the reader, but several years ago, on the SignWriting
>List, we discussed that in great detail, and I thought we all had
>decided that it is nice to be able to see the thumb when it is
>side...so we are using the dot for the thumb forward when it projects
>towards the reader, but not when the thumb is projecting side...Take a
>look at these web pages with the discussion we had on the List about
>this years ago:
>Regarding whether it is counterintuitive or not, the problem is that
>some hands can be greatly confused with others if there are not rules
>of some kind, and if there are not true differences from each
>other...So if you want to discuss one specific symbol that feels
>counterintuitive to you, please post that specific symbol with a GIF,
>as I cannot guess which one you mean...
>By the way, of course I know it looks a little silly with the index
>finger on one side of the square, and the thumb projecting forward on
>the opposite side of the square, but at least there is a consistent
>rule as to when that happens, and it happens with symbols that are not
>used that much....plus the little testing I did with readers, they
>seemed to be able to differentiate between the symbols while reading,
>and that is important too...The Parkhusts devoted several pages in
>their textbook on these symbols with the thumb forward...
>So, send me a GIF to show me the specific symbol that is bothering you -
>On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 02:37 AM, Ingvild Roald wrote:
>> In the Spanish drawings and symbols, the thumb forward is following the
>> (new?) convention of a point instead of a line when viewed head-on.
>> In your second part of this little lesson, the hand symbols are viewed
>> palm facing, and not only the thumb, but also the index has shifted.
>> is very counterintuitive.
>> So sorry, but yes, I still have questions.
>> But do enjoy time with your family,
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