pardon this, codger!

[Dennis R. Preston]

First, Ron is exactly right to distinguish intentions (although I ain't
much for using the official lexicon to support the distinction; let's just
make the words up as we go along; that way we'll be real scientists with
our own vocabulary). An old codger, for example, who thinks that "colored
people" is a polite way to refer to African-Americans may be considered
offensive but he intends not to disparage, to use Ron's terms.

I still think he should get with the program, and I am prepared to defend
"should" in applied linguistic terms in spite of Ron's #2. This does not
mean that I will refuse to study racist, sexist, homophobic language use,
and I can do so quite straightforwardly, but I cannot conceive of
responsible study in these areas (quite aside from the study of "internal"
linguistic factors) as being without value-laden implications.

Last, of course Ron is correct in addressing content. Words are not
offesnive; uses of them are, and who says what to whom (when, were,
etc....) is as important in these areas as in any other area of
sociologically-sensitive linguistic investigation. I am back this summer
from the Hungarian-side of my family's reunion, and "Hunkey" was probably
the most frequently used non-function word lexical item. We were all
Hunkies (by blood or marriage), and nobody got pissed off. Woe to you
non-Hunkies if you try it!

dInIs (also half hillbilly and also not a good choice to use on him if you
ain't one)

PS: OK buhTEHRZ?

PPS: What's the etymology of codger? I know that of geezer, but not codger.
My students say I am one or the other, but I forget which.







>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Date:         Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:14:17 EDT
>>Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>From: RonButters at AOL.COM
>>Subject:      pardon this, codger!
>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>
>>Dennis Preston writes:
>>
>><< [1]. "Offensiveness" is also in both brains,
>>sender and receiver. ... [2]. we also should probably try to avoid items
>>which will offend others, and  [3]. I assume, and I think rightfully, that
>>those who belong to classes which may be offended are the ones who get to say
>>whether items are
>>offensvie or not (just like American Poles get to say how to pronounce their
>>names, and speakers of Polish like me who think we know better can go sit on
>>it).>>
>>
>>Concerning [1], I'd like to make the distinction that dictionaries make:
>>"offensive" is only in the mind of the hearer, while "disparaging" is in the
>>mind of the speaker as well. You can find something offensive that I do not
>>intend to be offensive. But if something I say is "disparaging," I intended
>>the offense.
>>
>>Concerning [2], since when do grammarians concern themselves with "should" in
>>this absolute imperative sense? Is it our business to pass moral judgment on
>>language use? "Should" we also not split infinitives? Nah! Speakers certainly
>>"should" try not to use terms that others will find offensive--except when
>>they decide that they want to BE offensive (i.e., unless they chose to say
>>disparaging things). As Dennis knows (because he has studied discourse
>>analysis and conversational interaction), most people most of the time in
>>fact DO go to great lengths to avoid giving conversational offense. That is,
>>we normally DO "try to avoid items which will offend others"--that is normal
>>linguistic behavior. But what we "should" do is outside the scope of
>>linguistics.
>>
>>Concerning [3], it just ain't that simple. Whether, say, "Hoosier" or
>>"cornhusker" is taken as offensive depends a lot on context: who is doing the
>>talking, what are the circumstances, and who is deciding whether something is
>>offensive or not? Even the worst ethnic slur in America (the "N" word) can be
>>uttered without giving offense. Some homosexuals are offended by "queer,"
>>some are offended if one doesn't use it. Some "Hispanics" don't like that
>>term, some don't like "Latino." I seriously doubt that many people are
>>offended if a Polish name is not pronounced to their liking--though they may
>>be annoyed.
>>
>>--Ron Butters [a faggot who will be grumpy if Dennis does not pronounce my
>>surname Boo-TEHRZ from now on]
>>

Dennis R. Preston
Professor of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics and Languages
Michigan State University
East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
preston at pilot.msu.edu
Office: (517)353-0740
Fax: (517)432-2736