MN and Canada, soda, etc.

[Millie Webb]

I wanted to point out long ago that "hotdish" is still tremendously common,
and not even a self-conscious usage among the people I hear using it (church
potlucks, 4th of July picnics, American Legion bars, etc.).  I believe "eh"
is becoming much more common in Minnesota, although I don't think I have
heard it used naturally South of about St Cloud.

My "ou" sounds a lot like [o], and hardly ever like [auw], and I have not
lived in Minnesota for any length of time in over twelve years.  When I am
tired, relaxed, or slightly inebriated (yes, slightly), my pronunciation pf
almost any word with the sound usually spelled "ou" falls somewhere between
the "oa" in "boat", and the somewhat rounder (?) one people are labelling
"aboot".  It is quite an active shift among St Paul natives, as far as I can
tell.  I think the much more urban tone of Mpls in general may be why their
experience of these changes is so very different.  One of my brothers-in-law
comes from a family swimming in farmers (and my sister and he still farm
also, as do their children).  Most of the farmers I ever hear speak much
sound a lot more like St Paulites than they do like Minneapolitans.

As for "ish"?  I had no idea that was a Minnesota-only thing (and there,
mostly female) until my younger sister went to the UP for undergrad and was
roundly chastised as hopelessly Minnesotan for saying it.  Not that either
of us consider being hopelessly Minnesotan a bad thing....  I still say
"ish" all the time (well, not all the time, but usually instead of "yuck"
and the like).  My children (7, 5, 3) are even starting to say it, and they
were born in Michigan and now live in Wisconsin.

I did not see Fargo.  I know, I know: "traitor", "fiend" and so on ...  But
I have to ask.  Their Fargo is supposed to be in Minnesota?  That was
confusing me, because the real Fargo is in North Dakota, and Moorhead is in
Minnesota.  It sounds to me like any of the speech foibles in Fargo that
anyone is doubting are Minnesotan, can be easily accounted for by North
Dakota and Manitoba.  After all, Fargo/Moorhead is barely in Minnesota....

One more thing.  At least as recently as the 1990 census, although I still
have not checked the 2000 one: the number one ethnic group in St Paul ( at
least) was German, #2 was Irish, #3 Norwegian, and #4 Swedish.  People tend
to combine Norwegian and Swedish, and thus conclude "Scandinavian" is the
biggest group.  Most Swedes and Norwegians can get very irate when you lump
them into one group.  There were also more Hispanics than African-Americans,
more Hmong than Hispanics, and more Native Americans than Hmong.  That
balance may have changed somewhat.  But the fact remains that even St Paul
(with its reputation for being White and Middle Class) is pretty diverse in
its Midwestern "sameness".  ;-)

I read the book How to Speak Minnesotan, and felt like I was home again.
Most of it was pretty darn accurate, for the Minnesota I grew up in (native
St Paul, and mixture of rural areas from all over the state).  And the "eh"
thing is almost exclusively in Northern (Northern one-half anyway)
Minnesota.  I beg to differ that it means, "Isn't that right".  Seems to me
it is more like the "ya know" that so many people fill in the end of their
sentences (or phrases) with.  Sort of like "like" in the non-quotative
sense.  And, I talk very fast.  But then again, I have been told that is
atypical, and it is something many people comment on when I pause for
breath.

I'm done now (I think--Remember the "Minnesota long goodbye?...").  Tell me
why I am wrong, please.
 :-)

PS -- I would love a copy of your article, Fritz.  I heard "borrow" for lend
all the time.  But I have heard it across Michigan a lot too.  It always
seemed to me to be more of a (socioeconomic) "class" issue than anything
else.  Does your article bring up "binders" as rubber bands?  I still use
that one all the time too.  People look at me like I'm nuts though.  I think
in response, I have switched mostly to "rubber binders".


----- Original Message -----
From: "Beverly Flanigan" <flanigan at OHIOU.EDU>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: How we spent our Canadian vacation


> At 04:47 PM 8/12/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>
> Actually, you're right--'a boat' is closer to what I hear in my Minnesota
> nieces than 'aboot', although one niece is moving darn close to
> 'aboot'.  There's a continuum of vowel shifting there that's hard to
> pinpoint, but it's definitely not my 1940s /au/.
>
> 'Hotdish', (date etc.) bars, and 'uffda' are still common, but I eschew
> 'ishy'--when my sister says it I cringe.  But I don't get the point of
> 'borrow' (= lend? I never heard that usage), 'topper', and 'sliding'--?  I
> would very much appreciate a copy of your article!
>
>
> >My impression is that most rural Minnesotans do not have Canadian raising
in
> >'about'.  To my ear the MN version sounded more like 'a boat' than
'aboot'
> >(which is a stereotypical, but not accurate, spelling of the Canadian
> >pronunciation.).  Of course, close to the border,  many Minnesotans
probably
> >do have the genuine 'Canadian' pronunciation.
> >A few years ago I wrote a popular article on Minnesota speech (that's
popular
> >in the sense of non-scholarly--not that it gained widespread popularity).
It
> >appeared in:
> >Book of Virtues: The College of Fine Arts and Humanities.  Compendium
> >1997-98.  St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud MN.  Edited by Sharon
> >Cogdill.  pp.132-135.
> >
> >I discuss some grammar and pronunciation, as well as many vocab items,
> >including hotdish, bars, Uff da, ish(y), borrow, topper, beach, brat,
rubber
> >binder, and sliding.
> >
> >If anyone is interested, I might be able to find a copy on disk and send
it
> >to them electronically.
> >
> >Fritz Juengling
> >A Webfoot who swatted mosquitoes for 8 years.