That word "neen"

[T. Hakala]

Yes, I got the jocular tone of your email.  And I was joking back about
being hard on the Finns.  But I do find it interesting that non-native
speakers make grammatical "mistakes" (yes, the who/that distinction
probably bothers only language mavens) relative to their original language
maps.  And, honestly, I just had to take the opportunity to talk about
Finnish -- the most elided of the Scandinavian languages. :)

-Taryn

*************************************************************************
First line of the week:

This is the story of what a Woman's patience can endure, and what a Man's
resolution can achieve.

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On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Dennis R. Preston wrote:

> Well, see, it was a joke. Some of my best friends are Finns. My
> apparently failed point was that many (most?) native speakers of
> English don't always use "who" to refer to human referents; surely
> the sentence I gave "He's the man that I saw yesterday' is common
> among native speakers. I was just kind of giving it to the
> LinguistList for being so dense.
>
> dInIs
>
>
>
>
>
> >The most likely reason Finnish speakers have trouble with "that" and "who"
> >is due to the difference in interrogative and relative pronouns in
> >Finnish.  The interrogative pronoun "who" is "kuka" in Finnish, whereas
> >the relative pronoun "who" is "joka".  Or as my former Finnish instructor,
> >Andy Nestingen, so nicely explains:
> >
> >"The nominative form of the relative pronoun in Finnish is 'joka,'....
> >Of course there are different nominative forms in English to distinguish
> >between people and things, who and which/that. In contrast, Finnish does
> >not make this distinction, and 'joka' can mean either a person or a thing.
> >So:
> >
> >The boy, who is nice...Poika, joka on kiva...
> >
> >The car, which is red...Auto, joka on punainen...
> >
> >As a result, it would seem that a Finnish speaker who hadn't grasped the
> >distinctions made in English, and instead latched on to the most common
> >relative pronoun, say 'that,' which he or she used in place of 'joka,'
> >would consistently make the kind of grammatical error you mention."
> >
> >So there you have it.  Don't be so hard on us Finns (my grandparents were
> >from Finland).  After all, we brought you the sauna!
> >
> >Best,
> >Taryn Hakala
> >
> >*************************************************************************
> >First line of the week:
> >
> >This is the story of what a Woman's patience can endure, and what a Man's
> >resolution can achieve.
> >
> >*************************************************************************
> >
> >On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Dennis R. Preston wrote:
> >
> >>  Yes, just yesterday I heard some one say "horse" when they meant
> >>  "hoarse." My ears almost fell off!
> >>
> >>  But seriously folks, on our distinguished colleagues' LinguistList, a
> >>  seeker of wisdom asked what sorts of features distinguish Finns' use
> >>  of English. In the summary, it was noted that Finns have considerable
> >>  difficulty distinguishing the appropriate uses of "who" and "that";
> >>  it was observed that one often hears Finnish learners of English
> >  > using "that" when the referent is human (e.g., He's the man that I
> >  > saw yesterday). Someone must straighten out the poor Finns before
> >>  they destroy English! I was just in Helsinki and Joensuu and missed a
> >>  golden opportunity to help in this worthy cause since I met a lot of
> >>  people that could have used some help.
> >>
> >>  dInIs
> >>
> >>  >Bethany,
> >>  >
> >>  >I found your message about the word "neen" very interesting.  I have
> >>  >lived in Appalachia my whole life and have NEVER heard that word,
> >>  >other than it's derivative "needn't."  I learned something today!
> >>  >Now, I will be sure to pay close attention to someone saying it.
> >>  >However, the word that continues to bother me the most is "heerd"
> >>  >for "heard."  It makes my ears cringe.
> >>  >
> >>  >Tori
> >>
> >>  --
> >>  Dennis R. Preston
> >>  Professor of Linguistics
> >>  Department of Linguistics and Languages
> >>  740 Wells Hall A
> >>  Michigan State University
> >>  East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA
> >>  Office - (517) 353-0740
> >>  Fax - (517) 432-2736
> >>
>
> --
> Dennis R. Preston
> Professor of Linguistics
> Department of Linguistics and Languages
> 740 Wells Hall A
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA
> Office - (517) 353-0740
> Fax - (517) 432-2736
>