needs washed

[Beverly Flanigan]

At 11:57 PM 1/27/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> > Date:    Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:40:02 -0500
> > From:    Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIOU.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: needs washed
> >
> > Peter Trudgill confirms that much of northern England, Ireland, and
> > Scotland all have "needs/wants/(and likes?) + p.p."--so, as an earlier
> > writer noted too, this isn't surprising.   Pittsburgh and the South
> > Midland are in the mainstream!
>
>I'd like to look that up; where does he say this? (I'm interested in
>where the boundaries are in the British Isles.)
>
>Is it found anywhere in Canada?
>
> > At 03:20 PM 1/27/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> > >My spouse, a Pittsburgh native, has "needs washed," something that
> > >struck my Southern ear (Atlanta native) as quite strange from the
> > >first time I heard it (36+ years ago).  Neither he nor any of his
> > >family members (at least the ones I know) has "warshed."  (The family
> > >combines Pittsburgh working and middle class backgrounds.) But here's
> > >the interesting observation: Last night Twin Cities Public Television
> > >repeated a Nature film on puppies.  The Scotsman (I BELIEVE the
> > >setting was Scotland) observed of a Border collie pup that he "won't
> > >want petted" under certain circumstances. My ears perked up, of
> > >course. Miriam Meyers
> > >

In Trudgill's Chapter 1 of his _On Dialect: Social and Geographical
Perspectives_ (NYU Press, 1983), he uses "My hair needs washed" in a
questionnaire eliciting use vs. familiarity vs. unknown construction.  On
this item, he says "This construction is the one normally employed in
Scotland as well as in some areas immediately to the south of the border
and in parts of the USA" (p. 16).  Of his respondents at Reading
University, only two lecturers said they knew the form (and knew it was
Scots), but 90% of the students believed "no native speaker could say
it."  We get roughly the same results when we survey students here in Ohio:
Southern Ohioans know the form, but outsiders don't and reject it as
ungrammatical.  Although Trudgill doesn't mention Ireland in this case, it
has been attested as common in Ireland and/or Ulster as well.  (Michael, is
there a difference in preponderance of use between Eire and Ulster?)

I've also checked Hughes and Trudgill, _English Accents and Dialects_, 3rd
ed. (Arnold, 1996), p. 16, where p.p. after 'need' and 'want' varies across
So. England, Midlands/No. England, and Scotland; of these, only Scotland
has "It needs washed."  Interestingly, So. England and Scotland are cited
as having "I want it washed," while Mid/No. has "I want it washing."  But
the "missing" infinitive here is "to have," not "to be"--which throws the
paradigm into a different standard/nonstandard frame!  If "to be" is
deleted, a change to gerundive "washing" is  considered "standard" and
"washed" is "nonstandard."   But if "to have" is deleted, "washed" is
standard and gerundive (or pres. part.?) "washing" is nonstandard.  Or am I
missing something here?