catfish/cat

[Gerald Cohen]

 From Laurence Horn, yesterday:
>At 9:11 PM -0500 10/22/03, Gerald Cohen wrote:
>>... But there's no need to assume
>>that "catfish" was humorously altered to "cat." "Cat" can mean
>>"catfish"; cf. "There's more than one way to skin a cat." It's known
>>that the reference here is to a catfish, not a feline.
>>
>Is that in fact known?  The French say that there are more ways to
>kill a cat than by drowning it in butter, and I'm pretty sure they're
>not talking about catfish.  I wonder whether the English cat-skinning
>might also refer originally to the feline, much as we might prefer
>otherwise (I write as a cat-owner three times over, none of which are
>the swimming kind).  What do the first cites tell us?  It's true that
>"cat" is cited for 'catfish' as early as 1705, but when did the "more
>than one way to skin a cat" originate, and how do we know the
>reference was to the Annarhicas, Pimelodus, or one of the other
>relevant species?
>
>larry



I treated this topic in my article "There's More Than One Way To Skin A Cat."
in: _Studies in Slang_, part 2 (ed.: Gerald Leonard Cohen), Frankfurt
am Main: Peter Lang. 1989, pp. 118-119.

   Here's an excerpt, viz. what John S. Farmer says (in
_Americanisms--Old and New_, 1889):" _CAT or CATFISH...Perhaps the
most common fish in the States, and certainly the one which enjoys
the greatest number of aliases.  the negroes, especially in the
South, call it the _catty_, but its most popular name is simply
_cat_..."

Also, btw, one of Farmer's quotes is: "[Dodge says that] In the purer
streams of the plains is found a beautiful species of CAT-FISH,
called in some parts the lady cat, and in others the channel cat. Its
maximum weight is about three pounds.  The spines of the pectoral
fins are unusually developed and inflict a most painful wound...It is
very strong and active, and when hooked, makes almost as good a fight
as a bass or trout of equal weight.  It is the trout of CAT-FISH."

   Farmer also comments on catfish in general: "In the large rivers
they grow to an immense size."

    So, some catfish could be big and powerful and could put up a heck of fight.
Is there any chance that when Louis Armstrong (on the riverboats)
started popularizing slang "cats" in reference to jazz aficionados,
he had in mind the catfish rather than felines?

Gerald Cohen


>At 9:11 PM -0500 10/22/03, Gerald Cohen wrote:
>>At 7:11 PM -0400 10/22/03, Douglas G. Wilson wrote:
>>>>---"'Hot cat' stand"--what exactly is this?
>>>
>>>Presumably a catfish stand (altered for humor). If the catfish stand is
>>>unfamiliar, one can find several instances by the usual Googling.
>>
>>Thanks; this looks like the solution. But there's no need to assume
>>that "catfish" was humorously altered to "cat." "Cat" can mean
>>"catfish"; cf. "There's more than one way to skin a cat." It's known
>>that the reference here is to a catfish, not a feline.
>>
>Is that in fact known?  The French say that there are more ways to
>kill a cat than by drowning it in butter, and I'm pretty sure they're
>not talking about catfish.  I wonder whether the English cat-skinning
>might also refer originally to the feline, much as we might prefer
>otherwise (I write as a cat-owner three times over, none of which are
>the swimming kind).  What do the first cites tell us?  It's true that
>"cat" is cited for 'catfish' as early as 1705, but when did the "more
>than one way to skin a cat" originate, and how do we know the
>reference was to the Annarhicas, Pimelodus, or one of the other
>relevant species?
>
>larry