"di?nt" (with glottal stop)

[Wilson Gray]

On Nov 16, 2004, at 9:09 PM, Kathy Seal wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Kathy Seal <kathyseal at ADELPHIA.NET>
> Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
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>
> Do you know when in the sixties college students, activists, etc.
> started
> referring to police as "pigs"?
>
>
> KATHY SEAL
> 310-452-2769
> Coauthor, Motivated Minds: Raising Children to Love Learning (Holt,
> 2001)
> www.Kathyseal.net

My guess is 1965. I *know* that it was before 1969, since, by then,
local high-school all-stars had begun to play an annual flag-football
game against the younger local cops in a game which was called the "Pig
Bowl." This was in Sacramento, CA.

-Wilson Gray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wilson Gray" <wilson.gray at RCN.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:05 PM
> Subject: Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
>
>
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> header -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
> -----
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2004, at 5:09 PM, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
>>
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>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIOU.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> --------
>>>
>>> As Wilson knows, I lived in St. Louis for 10 years (in the '60s), but
>>> alas,
>>> I was so cocooned by St. Louis U and Wash U (as we called it) that I
>>> didn't
>>> really tune into the local dialect(s).   But I do recall "No I never"
>>> from
>>> somewhere during that era.  I was struck by my distant cousins' use
>>> of
>>> "sody pop" on the other side of the river, in Collinsville
>>
>> During my four years of high school, the Collinsville High School
>> Cahoks (rhymes with "Jayhawks," i.e. "Cayhawks"; people said that, if
>> Collinsville had a heart, it would give up its team nickname to the
>> Cahokia, IL, HS; Collinsville had no heart ) won every single
>> basketball game that they played against us, at home or away.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>>>  but I don't
>>> recall "youse" (though my Baltimore in-laws used it all the time).  A
>>> colleague's wife here in Athens but originally from St. Louis has the
>>> "for/far" homophony (or maybe reversal? I'll listen again).  Now
>>> Labov
>>> claims St. Louis is a "corridor" extending the Northern Cities Shift
>>> southward (maybe to Cincinnati too), but it wasn't back in the old
>>> days!
>>>
>>> At 04:02 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote:
>>>> On Nov 16, 2004, at 3:13 PM, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIOU.EDU>
>>>>> Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> --------
>>>>>
>>>>> This deleted tap [dInt]
>>>>
>>>> This pronunciation was used by white kids in St. Louis, back in the
>>>> day. These kids would now, as is your humble correspondent, be
>>>> approaching their 70's all too quickly. BTW, what about "no I
>>>> never,"
>>>> used by these same white no-longer-kids, as opposed to the "no I
>>>> didn't" used by us coloreds? Is/was that widespread? And how about
>>>> the
>>>> use of "youse" by white kids in St. Louis in my day, when everyone
>>>> claimed that this usage was peculiar to Brooklyn, NY? St. Louis is a
>>>> kind of Rodney Dangerfield of dialectology. It don't get no respect.
>>>>
>>>> -Wilson Gray
>>>>
>>>>>  or [dIn?] is what I hear in my nieces in Minnesota,
>>>>> and I assume it's widespread.  I glottalize intervocalically, as do
>>>>> most
>>>>> people I know here in Ohio.  Does anyone say [dIDnt] except perhaps
>>>>> in
>>>>> formal speech?  (D = flap, n is syllabic.)
>>>>>
>>>>> At 01:14 AM 11/16/2004, Zwicky wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> just a warning...  the spelling <di'nt> (or similar things) is
>>>>>> often
>>>>>> used to code a pronunciation in which the intervocalic voiced tap
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> simply deleted.  not the same thing as a pronunciation with an
>>>>>> intervocalic glottalish bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i suspect that ben zimmer's examples include some with an
>>>>>> intervocalic
>>>>>> glottal stop and some with no intervocalic consonant at all.  this
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> not to deny that some of them have glottal stops, possibly from a
>>>>>> catchphrase.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> arnold
>>>
>