"di?nt" (with glottal stop)

[Kathy Seal]

Do you know when in the sixties college students, activists, etc. started
referring to police as "pigs"?


KATHY SEAL
310-452-2769
Coauthor, Motivated Minds: Raising Children to Love Learning (Holt, 2001)
www.Kathyseal.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wilson Gray" <wilson.gray at RCN.COM>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM>
> Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> On Nov 16, 2004, at 5:09 PM, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIOU.EDU>
> > Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------
> >
> > As Wilson knows, I lived in St. Louis for 10 years (in the '60s), but
> > alas,
> > I was so cocooned by St. Louis U and Wash U (as we called it) that I
> > didn't
> > really tune into the local dialect(s).   But I do recall "No I never"
> > from
> > somewhere during that era.  I was struck by my distant cousins' use of
> > "sody pop" on the other side of the river, in Collinsville
>
> During my four years of high school, the Collinsville High School
> Cahoks (rhymes with "Jayhawks," i.e. "Cayhawks"; people said that, if
> Collinsville had a heart, it would give up its team nickname to the
> Cahokia, IL, HS; Collinsville had no heart ) won every single
> basketball game that they played against us, at home or away.
>
> -Wilson
>
> >  but I don't
> > recall "youse" (though my Baltimore in-laws used it all the time).  A
> > colleague's wife here in Athens but originally from St. Louis has the
> > "for/far" homophony (or maybe reversal? I'll listen again).  Now Labov
> > claims St. Louis is a "corridor" extending the Northern Cities Shift
> > southward (maybe to Cincinnati too), but it wasn't back in the old
> > days!
> >
> > At 04:02 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote:
> >> On Nov 16, 2004, at 3:13 PM, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
> >>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>> -----------------------
> >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>> Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIOU.EDU>
> >>> Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> --
> >>> --------
> >>>
> >>> This deleted tap [dInt]
> >>
> >> This pronunciation was used by white kids in St. Louis, back in the
> >> day. These kids would now, as is your humble correspondent, be
> >> approaching their 70's all too quickly. BTW, what about "no I never,"
> >> used by these same white no-longer-kids, as opposed to the "no I
> >> didn't" used by us coloreds? Is/was that widespread? And how about the
> >> use of "youse" by white kids in St. Louis in my day, when everyone
> >> claimed that this usage was peculiar to Brooklyn, NY? St. Louis is a
> >> kind of Rodney Dangerfield of dialectology. It don't get no respect.
> >>
> >> -Wilson Gray
> >>
> >>>  or [dIn?] is what I hear in my nieces in Minnesota,
> >>> and I assume it's widespread.  I glottalize intervocalically, as do
> >>> most
> >>> people I know here in Ohio.  Does anyone say [dIDnt] except perhaps
> >>> in
> >>> formal speech?  (D = flap, n is syllabic.)
> >>>
> >>> At 01:14 AM 11/16/2004, Zwicky wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> just a warning...  the spelling <di'nt> (or similar things) is often
> >>>> used to code a pronunciation in which the intervocalic voiced tap is
> >>>> simply deleted.  not the same thing as a pronunciation with an
> >>>> intervocalic glottalish bit.
> >>>>
> >>>> i suspect that ben zimmer's examples include some with an
> >>>> intervocalic
> >>>> glottal stop and some with no intervocalic consonant at all.  this
> >>>> is
> >>>> not to deny that some of them have glottal stops, possibly from a
> >>>> catchphrase.
> >>>>
> >>>> arnold
> >