prissy, 1842 (?)

Fri Oct 22 11:51:53 UTC 2004

>I remember, and I can hambone, so proficiently that I also remember
>bright red legs (inside, just above the lnees) from overdoing it.


dInIs

>On Oct 21, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>>Subject:      Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>--------
>>
>>I got hold of Abrahams' book around the time I started collecting
>>slang, for obvious reasons.  It was considered so daring a publication
>>when it came out that the copy I saw included a warning forbidding
>>anyone who wasn't a doctor, sociologist, or law enforcement officer
>>from looking at it.
>
>No kidding?! That's amazing!
>>
>>I figured "college student" was close enough.
>>
>>The "toasts" Abrahams recorded were the direct ancestors of rap. On
>>the European side, the "flash songs" attributed to English crooks of
>>the 17th and 18th centuries are to some extent comparable, at least in
>>the context of their times.
>>
>>Whether the African-American "toast" tradition goes as far back as the
>>19th century remains unknown, so far as I can tell.  Which is, of
>>course, not very far.
>>
>>JL
>
>Unfortunately, this kind of stuff is probably dead. When I was a
>teenager in the '50's, whenever Billy, a talker of such renown that he
>was given the nickname "Jerry Lewis," (a *hell* of a compliment, in
>those days) would try to recite "Deep down in the jungle," he would be
>shouted down. In the '60's, there was nothing that I could do to
>persuade our premiere practitioner of the hambone, also named Billy, to
>demonstrate so much as a single thigh slap, after we got out of the
>Army. Back in the '40's, Hambone Billy and his brother used to provide
>what amounted to workshops in hamboning. Freddy, master of the bones
>and the spoons, stopped all that after he got out of the Navy and got
>into college. The only things that continue to be cultivated are
>colorful language and the art of the insult.
>
>BTW, you may recall that Abrahams mentions that his informants could
>sing. That is an understatement. Those men constituted two
>nationally-known - among blacks, that is - singing groups. As the
>"Gladiolas," they recorded the original version of "Little Darling." As
>"Otis Williams and the Charms," they recorded the original version of
>"Stay," if there's anyone else old enough to remember.
>
>-Wilson Gray
>
>>Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM> wrote:
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>Poster: Wilson Gray
>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>--------
>>
>>On Oct 21, 2004, at 10:06 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>
>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-
>>>--------
>>>
>>>Wilson, you may remember the 1958 hit, "Tom Dooley." Well, the
>>>Kingston Trio jazzed it up a little bit from the way it was sung by
>>>Frank Proffitt, the old-time banjo-frailer from Sodom (no kidding), N.
>>>C., who taught it to collector Frank Warner who, etc., etc., etc., by
>>>the Kingston Trio. Proffitt always sang, "You STOBBED her with your
>>>knife." He was white, born about 1910.
>>>
>>>I may be fooling myself, but come to think of it the comic-strip
>>>Tarzan in the '50s may have referred to his knife as a "dirk." Not
>>>sure now. But if he did, it would have seemed like "literary" language
>>>to me, in NYC and all. It never entered my active vocabulary.
>>>
>>>Will have to start using it.
>>>
>>>Question: Does "dagger" sound "too Shakespearean" to people who grew
>>>up saying "dirk"? (Macbeth. ... Is that a dagger I see before me?)
>>>
>>>JL
>>>
>>
>>Not to me, in any case. BTW, do you know of Roger D. Abrahams? It's
>>pronounced as though spelled "Abrams," so I've heard. I have a book of
>>his called Deep Down in the Jungle (1963) that, among other things has
>>a very small list of black usages from Philadelphia, some of which are
>>new to me or have a different meaning from the one that I'm familiar
>>with. I've been tempted to post some of his stuff. But that would be
>>fairly pointless, if everyone here already knows his work.
>>
>>-Wilson
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-
>>>--------
>>>
>>>On Oct 21, 2004, at 8:47 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>
>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>-
>>>>-
>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>This may have nothing to do with George's question, but is worth
>>>>reporting before I forget it.
>>>>
>>>>A few years ago I was alerted to a book that dealt with antebellum
>>>>sexual attitudes in the South. It frequently cited unpublished court
>>>>records. In one case, in Virginia around 1810, a rape victim
>>>>testified that her assailant had broken into her bed chamber and
>>>>approached her "with his dick in his hand."
>>>>
>>>>This would be an antedating by about 75 years of a now universally
>>>>known term. It would also make it by origin an Americanism.
>>>>
>>>>Skeptical, I wrote to the Court House for a photocopy of the
>>>>document,
>>>>which soon arrived.
>>>>
>>>>As he was undoubtedly expected to do, the court stenographer had
>>>>written his final draft in bold, graceful, and very legible script.
>>>>There was absolutely no doubt: what the assailant had held in his
>>>>hand
>>>>was his "dirk."
>>>>
>>>>Chalk this false alarm up to someone's hasty transcription or
>>>>proof-reading. But I was amused greatly when a colleague (not a
>>>>linguist) suggested that the unmistakable "dirk" might well have been
>>>>a slip of the pen for the putative "dick," since "'dirk' is too
>>>>Shakespearean" [!].
>>>
>>>I second that observation, i.e. the [!]. Remember the knife that
>>>Tarzan
>>>wielded? Among us Southern blacks, that was a dirk. "I stobbed him/her
>>>with my dirk" is a common blues line. BTW, FWIW, according to BET,
>>>"stob" for "stab" is still used in living speech among black
>>>Alabamians.
>>>
>>>-Wilson Gray
>>>
>>>>
>>>>As for "prissy," I have no suggestions.
>>>>
>>>>JL
>>>>
>>>>George Thompson wrote:
>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>Poster: George Thompson
>>>>Subject: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>-
>>>>-
>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>The OED says that "prissy" dates from the mid 1890s, and is probably
>>>>compounded from "prim" and "sissy".
>>>>
>>>>Here is an occurence of the word from 1842. The meaning isn't at all
>>>>clear, but it is obiously used in an affirmative sense, quite the
>>>>opposite of the post 1890s meaning. The person described is Martin
>>>>Van
>>>>Buren, who was campaigning for the presidency.
>>>>
>>>>"Time has been merciful to him. He looks more fresh and prissy than
>>>>ever we saw him, excepting that his locks are a little more like
>>>>those
>>>>of his 'illustrious predecessor,' being whitened by the snows of a
>>>>few
>>>>more winters." From the New Orleans Daily Picayune, of April 12 or
>>>>15,
>>>>1842, perhaps citing the Natchez Free Press; as cited in Ralph M.
>>>>Aderman & Wayne R. Kime, Advocate for America: The Life of James
>>>>Kirke
>>>>Paulding, Selingrove: Susquehanna U. Pr., 2003, p. 272 and footnote
>>>>18, p. 383.
>>>>
>>>>Van Buren was 60 in 1842, and it would seem a bit extreme to describe
>>>>a 60-year old as "pristine", -- myself being an exception, of course
>>>>-- but could this be a shortening of that word?
>>>>
>>>>GAT
>>>>
>>>>George A. Thompson
>>>>Author of A Documentary History of "The African
>>>>Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic, Asian, and African Languages
A-740 Wells Hall
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824
Phone: (517) 432-3099
Fax: (517) 432-2736
preston at msu.edu