prissy, 1842 (?)

[Dennis R. Preston]

I'ma take on Gary Busey any day! Both hands, both hands cross, off my
arm, off your shoulder; hell, off any object gets close enough to me
to hambone on.

dInIs



>On Oct 22, 2004, at 7:51 AM, Dennis R. Preston wrote:
>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>>Subject:      Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>--------
>>
>>>I remember, and I can hambone, so proficiently that I also remember
>>>bright red legs (inside, just above the lnees) from overdoing it.
>>
>>
>>dInIs
>
>And, as fate would have it, the last person that I saw with my own eyes
>doing the hambone was a white man, Gary Busey, the actor, on a show
>that aired on Comedy Central a while ago. He was pretty good at it,
>too. Of course, given that Gary is also a native of East Texas, I
>wouldn't have expected less.
>
>-Wilson
>
>>
>>>On Oct 21, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>
>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>>>>Subject:      Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>--
>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>I got hold of Abrahams' book around the time I started collecting
>>>>slang, for obvious reasons.  It was considered so daring a
>>>>publication
>>>>when it came out that the copy I saw included a warning forbidding
>>>>anyone who wasn't a doctor, sociologist, or law enforcement officer
>>>>from looking at it.
>>>
>>>No kidding?! That's amazing!
>>>>
>>>>I figured "college student" was close enough.
>>>>
>>>>The "toasts" Abrahams recorded were the direct ancestors of rap. On
>>>>the European side, the "flash songs" attributed to English crooks of
>>>>the 17th and 18th centuries are to some extent comparable, at least
>>>>in
>>>>the context of their times.
>>>>
>>>>Whether the African-American "toast" tradition goes as far back as
>>>>the
>>>>19th century remains unknown, so far as I can tell.  Which is, of
>>>>course, not very far.
>>>>
>>>>JL
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, this kind of stuff is probably dead. When I was a
>>>teenager in the '50's, whenever Billy, a talker of such renown that he
>>>was given the nickname "Jerry Lewis," (a *hell* of a compliment, in
>>>those days) would try to recite "Deep down in the jungle," he would be
>>>shouted down. In the '60's, there was nothing that I could do to
>>>persuade our premiere practitioner of the hambone, also named Billy,
>>>to
>>>demonstrate so much as a single thigh slap, after we got out of the
>>>Army. Back in the '40's, Hambone Billy and his brother used to provide
>>>what amounted to workshops in hamboning. Freddy, master of the bones
>>>and the spoons, stopped all that after he got out of the Navy and got
>>>into college. The only things that continue to be cultivated are
>>>colorful language and the art of the insult.
>>>
>>>BTW, you may recall that Abrahams mentions that his informants could
>>>sing. That is an understatement. Those men constituted two
>>>nationally-known - among blacks, that is - singing groups. As the
>>>"Gladiolas," they recorded the original version of "Little Darling."
>>>As
>>>"Otis Williams and the Charms," they recorded the original version of
>>>"Stay," if there's anyone else old enough to remember.
>>>
>>>-Wilson Gray
>>>
>>>>Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM> wrote:
>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>--
>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>On Oct 21, 2004, at 10:06 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>--
>>>>>-
>>>>>--------
>>>>>
>>>>>Wilson, you may remember the 1958 hit, "Tom Dooley." Well, the
>>>>>Kingston Trio jazzed it up a little bit from the way it was sung by
>>>>>Frank Proffitt, the old-time banjo-frailer from Sodom (no kidding),
>>>>>N.
>>>>>C., who taught it to collector Frank Warner who, etc., etc., etc.,
>>>>>by
>>>>>the Kingston Trio. Proffitt always sang, "You STOBBED her with your
>>>>>knife." He was white, born about 1910.
>>>>>
>>>>>I may be fooling myself, but come to think of it the comic-strip
>>>>>Tarzan in the '50s may have referred to his knife as a "dirk." Not
>>>>>sure now. But if he did, it would have seemed like "literary"
>>>>>language
>>>>>to me, in NYC and all. It never entered my active vocabulary.
>>>>>
>>>>>Will have to start using it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Question: Does "dagger" sound "too Shakespearean" to people who grew
>>>>>up saying "dirk"? (Macbeth. ... Is that a dagger I see before me?)
>>>>>
>>>>>JL
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Not to me, in any case. BTW, do you know of Roger D. Abrahams? It's
>>>>pronounced as though spelled "Abrams," so I've heard. I have a book
>>>>of
>>>>his called Deep Down in the Jungle (1963) that, among other things
>>>>has
>>>>a very small list of black usages from Philadelphia, some of which
>>>>are
>>>>new to me or have a different meaning from the one that I'm familiar
>>>>with. I've been tempted to post some of his stuff. But that would be
>>>>fairly pointless, if everyone here already knows his work.
>>>>
>>>>-Wilson
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>--
>>>>>-
>>>>>--------
>>>>>
>>>>>On Oct 21, 2004, at 8:47 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>-
>>>>>>-
>>>>>>--------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This may have nothing to do with George's question, but is worth
>>>>>>reporting before I forget it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A few years ago I was alerted to a book that dealt with antebellum
>>>>>>sexual attitudes in the South. It frequently cited unpublished
>>>>>>court
>>>>>>records. In one case, in Virginia around 1810, a rape victim
>>>>>>testified that her assailant had broken into her bed chamber and
>>>>>>approached her "with his dick in his hand."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This would be an antedating by about 75 years of a now universally
>>>>>>known term. It would also make it by origin an Americanism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Skeptical, I wrote to the Court House for a photocopy of the
>>>>>>document,
>>>>>>which soon arrived.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As he was undoubtedly expected to do, the court stenographer had
>>>>>>written his final draft in bold, graceful, and very legible script.
>>>>>>There was absolutely no doubt: what the assailant had held in his
>>>>>>hand
>>>>>>was his "dirk."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Chalk this false alarm up to someone's hasty transcription or
>>>>>>proof-reading. But I was amused greatly when a colleague (not a
>>>>>>linguist) suggested that the unmistakable "dirk" might well have
>>>>>>been
>>>>>>a slip of the pen for the putative "dick," since "'dirk' is too
>>>>>>Shakespearean" [!].
>>>>>
>>>>>I second that observation, i.e. the [!]. Remember the knife that
>>>>>Tarzan
>>>>>wielded? Among us Southern blacks, that was a dirk. "I stobbed
>>>>>him/her
>>>>>with my dirk" is a common blues line. BTW, FWIW, according to BET,
>>>>>"stob" for "stab" is still used in living speech among black
>>>>>Alabamians.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Wilson Gray
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As for "prissy," I have no suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>JL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>George Thompson wrote:
>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>Poster: George Thompson
>>>>>>Subject: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>-
>>>>>>-
>>>>>>--------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The OED says that "prissy" dates from the mid 1890s, and is
>>>>>>probably
>>>>>>compounded from "prim" and "sissy".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here is an occurence of the word from 1842. The meaning isn't at
>>>>>>all
>>>>>>clear, but it is obiously used in an affirmative sense, quite the
>>>>>>opposite of the post 1890s meaning. The person described is Martin
>>>>>>Van
>>>>>>Buren, who was campaigning for the presidency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Time has been merciful to him. He looks more fresh and prissy than
>>>>>>ever we saw him, excepting that his locks are a little more like
>>>>>>those
>>>>>>of his 'illustrious predecessor,' being whitened by the snows of a
>>>>>>few
>>>>>>more winters." From the New Orleans Daily Picayune, of April 12 or
>>>>>>15,
>>>>>>1842, perhaps citing the Natchez Free Press; as cited in Ralph M.
>>>>>>Aderman & Wayne R. Kime, Advocate for America: The Life of James
>>>>>>Kirke
>>>>>>Paulding, Selingrove: Susquehanna U. Pr., 2003, p. 272 and footnote
>>>>>>18, p. 383.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Van Buren was 60 in 1842, and it would seem a bit extreme to
>>>>>>describe
>>>>>>a 60-year old as "pristine", -- myself being an exception, of
>>>>>>course
>>>>>>-- but could this be a shortening of that word?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>GAT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>George A. Thompson
>>>>>>Author of A Documentary History of "The African
>>>>>>Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>
>>--
>>Dennis R. Preston
>>University Distinguished Professor of Linguistics
>>Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic, Asian, and African
>>Languages
>>A-740 Wells Hall
>>Michigan State University
>>East Lansing, MI 48824
>>Phone: (517) 432-3099
>>Fax: (517) 432-2736
>>preston at msu.edu


--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic,
        Asian and African Languages
Wells Hall A-740
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA
Office: (517) 353-0740
Fax: (517) 432-2736