prissy, 1842 (?)

[Wilson Gray]

On Oct 22, 2004, at 4:28 PM, Dennis R. Preston wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> I'ma take on Gary Busey any day! Both hands, both hands cross, off my
> arm, off your shoulder; hell, off any object gets close enough to me
> to hambone on.
>
> dInIs

Jeez, dInIs, you make me wish I knew Busey, so that I could relay the
challenge. I'd take you on myself, but I missed out on the rhythm gene.
My own hamboning is rudimentary, at best. That's why I tried to get my
old buddy, Billy, to give me lessons, back in the '60's. Oh, well.
Thass jes the way it be, sometime.

-Wilson

>
>
>
>> On Oct 22, 2004, at 7:51 AM, Dennis R. Preston wrote:
>>
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>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> --------
>>>
>>>> I remember, and I can hambone, so proficiently that I also remember
>>>> bright red legs (inside, just above the lnees) from overdoing it.
>>>
>>>
>>> dInIs
>>
>> And, as fate would have it, the last person that I saw with my own
>> eyes
>> doing the hambone was a white man, Gary Busey, the actor, on a show
>> that aired on Comedy Central a while ago. He was pretty good at it,
>> too. Of course, given that Gary is also a native of East Texas, I
>> wouldn't have expected less.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 21, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>
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>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>>>>> Subject:      Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> --------
>>>>>
>>>>> I got hold of Abrahams' book around the time I started collecting
>>>>> slang, for obvious reasons.  It was considered so daring a
>>>>> publication
>>>>> when it came out that the copy I saw included a warning forbidding
>>>>> anyone who wasn't a doctor, sociologist, or law enforcement officer
>>>>> from looking at it.
>>>>
>>>> No kidding?! That's amazing!
>>>>>
>>>>> I figured "college student" was close enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "toasts" Abrahams recorded were the direct ancestors of rap. On
>>>>> the European side, the "flash songs" attributed to English crooks
>>>>> of
>>>>> the 17th and 18th centuries are to some extent comparable, at least
>>>>> in
>>>>> the context of their times.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether the African-American "toast" tradition goes as far back as
>>>>> the
>>>>> 19th century remains unknown, so far as I can tell.  Which is, of
>>>>> course, not very far.
>>>>>
>>>>> JL
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, this kind of stuff is probably dead. When I was a
>>>> teenager in the '50's, whenever Billy, a talker of such renown that
>>>> he
>>>> was given the nickname "Jerry Lewis," (a *hell* of a compliment, in
>>>> those days) would try to recite "Deep down in the jungle," he would
>>>> be
>>>> shouted down. In the '60's, there was nothing that I could do to
>>>> persuade our premiere practitioner of the hambone, also named Billy,
>>>> to
>>>> demonstrate so much as a single thigh slap, after we got out of the
>>>> Army. Back in the '40's, Hambone Billy and his brother used to
>>>> provide
>>>> what amounted to workshops in hamboning. Freddy, master of the bones
>>>> and the spoons, stopped all that after he got out of the Navy and
>>>> got
>>>> into college. The only things that continue to be cultivated are
>>>> colorful language and the art of the insult.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, you may recall that Abrahams mentions that his informants could
>>>> sing. That is an understatement. Those men constituted two
>>>> nationally-known - among blacks, that is - singing groups. As the
>>>> "Gladiolas," they recorded the original version of "Little Darling."
>>>> As
>>>> "Otis Williams and the Charms," they recorded the original version
>>>> of
>>>> "Stay," if there's anyone else old enough to remember.
>>>>
>>>> -Wilson Gray
>>>>
>>>>> Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM> wrote:
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>>> Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> --------
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 21, 2004, at 10:06 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>>>> Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wilson, you may remember the 1958 hit, "Tom Dooley." Well, the
>>>>>> Kingston Trio jazzed it up a little bit from the way it was sung
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> Frank Proffitt, the old-time banjo-frailer from Sodom (no
>>>>>> kidding),
>>>>>> N.
>>>>>> C., who taught it to collector Frank Warner who, etc., etc., etc.,
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> the Kingston Trio. Proffitt always sang, "You STOBBED her with
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> knife." He was white, born about 1910.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I may be fooling myself, but come to think of it the comic-strip
>>>>>> Tarzan in the '50s may have referred to his knife as a "dirk." Not
>>>>>> sure now. But if he did, it would have seemed like "literary"
>>>>>> language
>>>>>> to me, in NYC and all. It never entered my active vocabulary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will have to start using it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Question: Does "dagger" sound "too Shakespearean" to people who
>>>>>> grew
>>>>>> up saying "dirk"? (Macbeth. ... Is that a dagger I see before me?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JL
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to me, in any case. BTW, do you know of Roger D. Abrahams? It's
>>>>> pronounced as though spelled "Abrams," so I've heard. I have a book
>>>>> of
>>>>> his called Deep Down in the Jungle (1963) that, among other things
>>>>> has
>>>>> a very small list of black usages from Philadelphia, some of which
>>>>> are
>>>>> new to me or have a different meaning from the one that I'm
>>>>> familiar
>>>>> with. I've been tempted to post some of his stuff. But that would
>>>>> be
>>>>> fairly pointless, if everyone here already knows his work.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Wilson
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>> Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>>>> Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 21, 2004, at 8:47 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This may have nothing to do with George's question, but is worth
>>>>>>> reporting before I forget it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A few years ago I was alerted to a book that dealt with
>>>>>>> antebellum
>>>>>>> sexual attitudes in the South. It frequently cited unpublished
>>>>>>> court
>>>>>>> records. In one case, in Virginia around 1810, a rape victim
>>>>>>> testified that her assailant had broken into her bed chamber and
>>>>>>> approached her "with his dick in his hand."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This would be an antedating by about 75 years of a now
>>>>>>> universally
>>>>>>> known term. It would also make it by origin an Americanism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Skeptical, I wrote to the Court House for a photocopy of the
>>>>>>> document,
>>>>>>> which soon arrived.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As he was undoubtedly expected to do, the court stenographer had
>>>>>>> written his final draft in bold, graceful, and very legible
>>>>>>> script.
>>>>>>> There was absolutely no doubt: what the assailant had held in his
>>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>> was his "dirk."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chalk this false alarm up to someone's hasty transcription or
>>>>>>> proof-reading. But I was amused greatly when a colleague (not a
>>>>>>> linguist) suggested that the unmistakable "dirk" might well have
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> a slip of the pen for the putative "dick," since "'dirk' is too
>>>>>>> Shakespearean" [!].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I second that observation, i.e. the [!]. Remember the knife that
>>>>>> Tarzan
>>>>>> wielded? Among us Southern blacks, that was a dirk. "I stobbed
>>>>>> him/her
>>>>>> with my dirk" is a common blues line. BTW, FWIW, according to BET,
>>>>>> "stob" for "stab" is still used in living speech among black
>>>>>> Alabamians.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Wilson Gray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for "prissy," I have no suggestions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> George Thompson wrote:
>>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>> Poster: George Thompson
>>>>>>> Subject: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The OED says that "prissy" dates from the mid 1890s, and is
>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>> compounded from "prim" and "sissy".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is an occurence of the word from 1842. The meaning isn't at
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> clear, but it is obiously used in an affirmative sense, quite the
>>>>>>> opposite of the post 1890s meaning. The person described is
>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>> Van
>>>>>>> Buren, who was campaigning for the presidency.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Time has been merciful to him. He looks more fresh and prissy
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> ever we saw him, excepting that his locks are a little more like
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> of his 'illustrious predecessor,' being whitened by the snows of
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>> more winters." From the New Orleans Daily Picayune, of April 12
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> 15,
>>>>>>> 1842, perhaps citing the Natchez Free Press; as cited in Ralph M.
>>>>>>> Aderman & Wayne R. Kime, Advocate for America: The Life of James
>>>>>>> Kirke
>>>>>>> Paulding, Selingrove: Susquehanna U. Pr., 2003, p. 272 and
>>>>>>> footnote
>>>>>>> 18, p. 383.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Van Buren was 60 in 1842, and it would seem a bit extreme to
>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>> a 60-year old as "pristine", -- myself being an exception, of
>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>> -- but could this be a shortening of that word?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GAT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> George A. Thompson
>>>>>>> Author of A Documentary History of "The African
>>>>>>> Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Dennis R. Preston
>>> University Distinguished Professor of Linguistics
>>> Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic, Asian, and African
>>> Languages
>>> A-740 Wells Hall
>>> Michigan State University
>>> East Lansing, MI 48824
>>> Phone: (517) 432-3099
>>> Fax: (517) 432-2736
>>> preston at msu.edu
>
>
> --
> Dennis R. Preston
> University Distinguished Professor
> Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic,
>         Asian and African Languages
> Wells Hall A-740
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA
> Office: (517) 353-0740
> Fax: (517) 432-2736
>