prissy, 1842 (?)

[Dennis R. Preston]

I'd think Busey would be up to this challenge. Wasn't they some
god-awful TV mini-series in which a wimpy guy followed Busey around,
with Busey abusing him as he (Busey) did "manly" things and the wimp
whined and suffered? I'd turn the tables on that fore you could say
"Hambone, hambone where you been?"

dInIs



>




>On Oct 22, 2004, at 4:28 PM, Dennis R. Preston wrote:
>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>>Subject:      Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>--------
>>
>>I'ma take on Gary Busey any day! Both hands, both hands cross, off my
>>arm, off your shoulder; hell, off any object gets close enough to me
>>to hambone on.
>>
>>dInIs
>
>Jeez, dInIs, you make me wish I knew Busey, so that I could relay the
>challenge. I'd take you on myself, but I missed out on the rhythm gene.
>My own hamboning is rudimentary, at best. That's why I tried to get my
>old buddy, Billy, to give me lessons, back in the '60's. Oh, well.
>Thass jes the way it be, sometime.
>
>-Wilson
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Oct 22, 2004, at 7:51 AM, Dennis R. Preston wrote:
>>>
>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>>>>Subject:      Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>--
>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>>I remember, and I can hambone, so proficiently that I also remember
>>>>>bright red legs (inside, just above the lnees) from overdoing it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>dInIs
>>>
>>>And, as fate would have it, the last person that I saw with my own
>>>eyes
>>>doing the hambone was a white man, Gary Busey, the actor, on a show
>>>that aired on Comedy Central a while ago. He was pretty good at it,
>>>too. Of course, given that Gary is also a native of East Texas, I
>>>wouldn't have expected less.
>>>
>>>-Wilson
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Oct 21, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>>Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>>>>>>Subject:      Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>--------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I got hold of Abrahams' book around the time I started collecting
>>>>>>slang, for obvious reasons.  It was considered so daring a
>>>>>>publication
>>>>>>when it came out that the copy I saw included a warning forbidding
>>>>>>anyone who wasn't a doctor, sociologist, or law enforcement officer
>>>>>>from looking at it.
>>>>>
>>>>>No kidding?! That's amazing!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I figured "college student" was close enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The "toasts" Abrahams recorded were the direct ancestors of rap. On
>>>>>>the European side, the "flash songs" attributed to English crooks
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>the 17th and 18th centuries are to some extent comparable, at least
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>the context of their times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Whether the African-American "toast" tradition goes as far back as
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>19th century remains unknown, so far as I can tell.  Which is, of
>>>>>>course, not very far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>JL
>>>>>
>>>>>Unfortunately, this kind of stuff is probably dead. When I was a
>>>>>teenager in the '50's, whenever Billy, a talker of such renown that
>>>>>he
>>>>>was given the nickname "Jerry Lewis," (a *hell* of a compliment, in
>>>>>those days) would try to recite "Deep down in the jungle," he would
>>>>>be
>>>>>shouted down. In the '60's, there was nothing that I could do to
>>>>>persuade our premiere practitioner of the hambone, also named Billy,
>>>>>to
>>>>>demonstrate so much as a single thigh slap, after we got out of the
>>>>>Army. Back in the '40's, Hambone Billy and his brother used to
>>>>>provide
>>>>>what amounted to workshops in hamboning. Freddy, master of the bones
>>>>>and the spoons, stopped all that after he got out of the Navy and
>>>>>got
>>>>>into college. The only things that continue to be cultivated are
>>>>>colorful language and the art of the insult.
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, you may recall that Abrahams mentions that his informants could
>>>>>sing. That is an understatement. Those men constituted two
>>>>>nationally-known - among blacks, that is - singing groups. As the
>>>>>"Gladiolas," they recorded the original version of "Little Darling."
>>>>>As
>>>>>"Otis Williams and the Charms," they recorded the original version
>>>>>of
>>>>>"Stay," if there's anyone else old enough to remember.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Wilson Gray
>>>>>
>>>>>>Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>--------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Oct 21, 2004, at 10:06 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>-
>>>>>>>--------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wilson, you may remember the 1958 hit, "Tom Dooley." Well, the
>>>>>>>Kingston Trio jazzed it up a little bit from the way it was sung
>>>>>>>by
>>>>>>>Frank Proffitt, the old-time banjo-frailer from Sodom (no
>>>>>>>kidding),
>>>>>>>N.
>>>>>>>C., who taught it to collector Frank Warner who, etc., etc., etc.,
>>>>>>>by
>>>>>>>the Kingston Trio. Proffitt always sang, "You STOBBED her with
>>>>>>>your
>>>>>>>knife." He was white, born about 1910.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I may be fooling myself, but come to think of it the comic-strip
>>>>>>>Tarzan in the '50s may have referred to his knife as a "dirk." Not
>>>>>>>sure now. But if he did, it would have seemed like "literary"
>>>>>>>language
>>>>>>>to me, in NYC and all. It never entered my active vocabulary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Will have to start using it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Question: Does "dagger" sound "too Shakespearean" to people who
>>>>>>>grew
>>>>>>>up saying "dirk"? (Macbeth. ... Is that a dagger I see before me?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>JL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not to me, in any case. BTW, do you know of Roger D. Abrahams? It's
>>>>>>pronounced as though spelled "Abrams," so I've heard. I have a book
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>his called Deep Down in the Jungle (1963) that, among other things
>>>>>>has
>>>>>>a very small list of black usages from Philadelphia, some of which
>>>>>>are
>>>>>>new to me or have a different meaning from the one that I'm
>>>>>>familiar
>>>>>>with. I've been tempted to post some of his stuff. But that would
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>fairly pointless, if everyone here already knows his work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-Wilson
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>-
>>>>>>>--------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Oct 21, 2004, at 8:47 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>>Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>-
>>>>>>>>-
>>>>>>>>--------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This may have nothing to do with George's question, but is worth
>>>>>>>>reporting before I forget it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>A few years ago I was alerted to a book that dealt with
>>>>>>>>antebellum
>>>>>>>>sexual attitudes in the South. It frequently cited unpublished
>>>>>>>>court
>>>>>>>>records. In one case, in Virginia around 1810, a rape victim
>>>>>>>>testified that her assailant had broken into her bed chamber and
>>>>>>>>approached her "with his dick in his hand."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This would be an antedating by about 75 years of a now
>>>>>>>>universally
>>>>>>>>known term. It would also make it by origin an Americanism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Skeptical, I wrote to the Court House for a photocopy of the
>>>>>>>>document,
>>>>>>>>which soon arrived.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As he was undoubtedly expected to do, the court stenographer had
>>>>>>>>written his final draft in bold, graceful, and very legible
>>>>>>>>script.
>>>>>>>>There was absolutely no doubt: what the assailant had held in his
>>>>>>>>hand
>>>>>>>>was his "dirk."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Chalk this false alarm up to someone's hasty transcription or
>>>>>>>>proof-reading. But I was amused greatly when a colleague (not a
>>>>>>>>linguist) suggested that the unmistakable "dirk" might well have
>>>>>>>>been
>>>>>>>>a slip of the pen for the putative "dick," since "'dirk' is too
>>>>>>>>Shakespearean" [!].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I second that observation, i.e. the [!]. Remember the knife that
>>>>>>>Tarzan
>>>>>>>wielded? Among us Southern blacks, that was a dirk. "I stobbed
>>>>>>>him/her
>>>>>>>with my dirk" is a common blues line. BTW, FWIW, according to BET,
>>>>>>>"stob" for "stab" is still used in living speech among black
>>>>>>>Alabamians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-Wilson Gray
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As for "prissy," I have no suggestions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>JL
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>George Thompson wrote:
>>>>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>>>Poster: George Thompson
>>>>>>>>Subject: prissy, 1842 (?)
>>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>-
>>>>>>>>-
>>>>>>>>--------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The OED says that "prissy" dates from the mid 1890s, and is
>>>>>>>>probably
>>>>>>>>compounded from "prim" and "sissy".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Here is an occurence of the word from 1842. The meaning isn't at
>>>>>>>>all
>>>>>>>>clear, but it is obiously used in an affirmative sense, quite the
>>>>>>>>opposite of the post 1890s meaning. The person described is
>>>>>>>>Martin
>>>>>>>>Van
>>>>>>>>Buren, who was campaigning for the presidency.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Time has been merciful to him. He looks more fresh and prissy
>>>>>>>>than
>>>>>>>>ever we saw him, excepting that his locks are a little more like
>>>>>>>>those
>>>>>>>>of his 'illustrious predecessor,' being whitened by the snows of
>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>few
>>>>>>>>more winters." From the New Orleans Daily Picayune, of April 12
>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>15,
>>>>>>>>1842, perhaps citing the Natchez Free Press; as cited in Ralph M.
>>>>>>>>Aderman & Wayne R. Kime, Advocate for America: The Life of James
>>>>>>>>Kirke
>>>>>>>>Paulding, Selingrove: Susquehanna U. Pr., 2003, p. 272 and
>>>>>>>>footnote
>>>>>>>>18, p. 383.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Van Buren was 60 in 1842, and it would seem a bit extreme to
>>>>>>>>describe
>>>>>>>>a 60-year old as "pristine", -- myself being an exception, of
>>>>>>>>course
>>>>>>>>-- but could this be a shortening of that word?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>GAT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>George A. Thompson
>>>>>>>>Author of A Documentary History of "The African
>>>>>>>>Theatre", Northwestern Univ. Pr., 1998.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Dennis R. Preston
>>>>University Distinguished Professor of Linguistics
>>>>Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic, Asian, and African
>>>>Languages
>>>>A-740 Wells Hall
>>>>Michigan State University
>>>>East Lansing, MI 48824
>>>>Phone: (517) 432-3099
>>>>Fax: (517) 432-2736
>>>>preston at msu.edu
>>
>>
>>--
>>Dennis R. Preston
>>University Distinguished Professor
>>Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic,
>>         Asian and African Languages
>>Wells Hall A-740
>>Michigan State University
>>East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA
>>Office: (517) 353-0740
>>Fax: (517) 432-2736


--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic, Asian, and African Languages
A-740 Wells Hall
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824
Phone: (517) 432-3099
Fax: (517) 432-2736
preston at msu.edu