a bunch of the boys ?was/?were...

[Wilson Gray]

Isn't the use of the plural of the verb phrase with the name of a
group, a team, or a set, etc. just standard English English? As for
"its' vs. "their," I don't know whether that's Britspeak or not.

-Wilson

On Feb 28, 2005, at 10:34 PM, James C Stalker wrote:

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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       James C Stalker <stalker at MSU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: a bunch of the boys ?was/?were...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> I'm not sure that I see how this explains "The team have won its last
> thee
> matches."
>
> Jim Stalker
>
>
> Laurence Horn writes:
>
>> At 1:27 AM -0500 2/28/05, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>
>>> It's not an arguable point at all. You are correct, sir. All that one
>>> need do is apply the relevant prescriptive rule:
>>>
>>> 1) "The group" et sim. require a singular verb phrase.
>>>
>>> 2) "A group" et sim. require a plural verb phrase.
>>>
>>> -Wilson [I do but jest, of course. But (1) and (2) above are real
>>> prescriptive rules that I was taught in high school.]
>>>
>>
>> Like all prescriptive rules, I fear these--or at least (2)--will end
>> up leaking around the edges.  If the predicate relates directly to
>> the group rather than its members, a singular verb sounds better to
>> me:
>>
>> A group of Bantu languages in southern Africa {have/#has} click
>> consonants.
>> A group of Bantu languages forming an enclave in eastern Nigeria is
>> (?are) in danger of becoming extinct/has (?have) been shown to be
>> closely related to a subgroup of languages in the Lake Victoria
>> region.
>>
>> [N.B.: The "facts" in the latter sentence were just made up on the
>> spot]
>>
>> Or even more clearly in:
>>
>> "A group of people always has (#have) a leader."
>>
>> And then there are quasi-metalinguistic uses:
>>
>> "For me, a group of objects always has/?have at least 3 members"
>>
>> What's crucial is whether we're predicating something directly of the
>> group or of its members.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
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>
>
> James C. Stalker
> Department of English
> Michigan State University
>