Fwd: a datum from dialectal Dutch (?)

[Wilson Gray]

On 5/9/05, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> Subject:      Fwd: Re: Fwd: a datum from dialectal Dutch (?)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Contribution to the "poppycock" debate from a colleague who knows
> more about the Dutch lexicon than anyone else I know, Jack Hoeksema
> of the U. of Groningen.  It is beginning to appear that "pappekak"
> is, well, poppycock.
>
> Larry
> --- begin forwarded text
>
> From: "J. Hoeksema" <J.Hoeksema at let.rug.nl>
> Organization: Faculteit der Letteren, RuG, NL
> To: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu>
> Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 17:28:51 +0100
> Subject: Re: Fwd: a datum from dialectal Dutch (?)
>
> >We're trying to ascertain the accuracy of the claim that
> >"poppycock" derives from a 'dialectal Dutch' form _pappekak_ 'soft
> >dung'.  Might it be Flemish?

Historical Note:

Back in the 'Fifties, TIME did a cover article on the BeNeLux. The
article mentioned in passing that "Flemish is [a language that is]
like Dutch." The following week's issue carried a letter to the editor
that read, "As a Fleming, I can tell you that Flemish is not '*like*
Dutch.'  Flemish *is* Dutch!"

 We could get Annie Zaenen's take on this, I suppose, for a more recent opinion.

-Wilson Gray

  Seems like the dung would be softer
> >there.
>
> The WNT (Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal, like OED, but larger)
> does not list _pappekak_ or its obvious spelling variants. Nor does the
> dictionary of middle Dutch. The Internet, likewise, does not yield any Dutch
> texts with this word, but many citations from American/English dictionaries.
> On the other hand, _pappekak_ is a possible word. Pap (or pappe) is used to
> indicate porridge, so "porridge shit" is a plausible vehicle for the meaning
> "soft dung". The problem is its attestation. My money is on the OED, which
> lists it as American slang, and does not offer a Dutch origin. The earliest
> attestations (late 19th century) are also a bit late for a Dutch origin.
>
> ...
> Best,
>
> Jack
>
> --- end forwarded text
>


--
-Wilson Gray