Query: why "salt and pepper" but not "pepper and salt"?

[Laurence Horn]

>Yes, of course.  Family trumps stress (or is the cause of it) and
>rhythm. But why?  If we have become a unit, i.e. 'salt and pepper',
>why not go with the stress and rhythm pattern that we are used to?
>That seems inexplicable.
>Fritz

What's inexplicable about it?  Remember the old saying, "Blood is
thicker than suprasegmentals."

Please do check out Cooper & Ross's paper, which I cited earlier (CLS
Functionalism volume, 1975) for many many examples of the semantic
constraints determining the order of these fixed expression, and in
particular for the workings of the "Me first" principle.  And there
are probably other studies since then.

No offense to phonologists out there, but why *should* one expect
sound to trump meaning, when they conflict?

Larry

>  >>> gcohen at UMR.EDU 05/19/05 05:26PM >>>
>The differing order of the names in the message below is explainable
>by who belongs to which family.  Holly's family will put her first
>("Holly 'n' Fritz"), while Fritz's family will put him first ("Fritz
>'n' Holly").  I noticed this phenomenon long ago, when I realized
>that all my cousins who got married were referred to first within my
>family--very possibly without the speakers even being aware of this.
>So, for example, "Sheldon and Leona" (Sheldon is my cousin).
>
>Gerald Cohen
>
>>  ----------
>>  From:         American Dialect Society on behalf of FRITZ JUENGLING
>>  Sent:         Thursday, May 19, 2005 5:51 PM
>>  Subject:           Re: Query: why "salt and pepper" but not
>>"pepper and salt"?
>>
>>  To what degree does stress play a role in such things?  My in-laws
>>call my wife and me "Holly 'n' Fritz".  My folks call us "Fritz 'n'
>>Holly".  I think the latter is much easier to say, but the in-laws
>>don't go for it.  Maybe they just have too much stress in their
>>lives already.
>>  Fritz
>>