"from a hole in the ground" antedating

[Laurence Horn]

At 1:26 PM -0400 8/8/06, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
>This was still common in my father's cursing lexicon, circa 1950 (usually
>with the adjective 'dumb').
>
>At 01:20 PM 8/8/2006, you wrote:
>>Speaking of Civil War-era locutions, here's a colorful and significant
>>antedating. If I remember correctly, this too is from a court-martial
>>record (but it may have been a letter or personal journal):
>>
>>   1866 in Andrew E. Masich _The Civil War in Arizona_ (Norman: U. of
>>Okla. Press, 2006) 101: So drunk that he did not know his ass from a hole
>>in the ground.
>>
>>   JL
>>
>>  __________________________________________________
I think we've discussed this in the past (not antedates, but
different formulas); I probably mentioned growing up with an
expurgated version that never made sense--"doesn't know his elbow
from a hole in the ground/wall"--and having an Aha! moment when I
first encountered the "ass" version.  Then there's the version in
Hamlet and no doubt elsewhere, "I know a hawk from a hacksaw".  That
distinction seems easy enough to draw, more like the elbow/hole than
the ass one; a tougher one is "can't tell shit from Shinola", which
might well pose a challenge, especially for someone with a head cold.

LH

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