"politics" and "guys"

[Wilson Gray]

To tell the truth, I've never actually lived anywhere that "you-all"
was not an acceptable alternative. Even in Texas, that was okay,
though the local pronnunciation made it sound more like "yew-wall"
than "you-all."

I've never been able to figure out when "you-all" should be replaced
by "y'all," though I''ve pondered the question for dEkIdz. I'm forced
to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter. Oh, well. What can
you do?

-Wilson

On 12/3/06, Dennis R. Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: "politics" and "guys"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Wilson,
>
> In spite of many years of Michigander life, I have resisted "you
> guys" (and elliptical "guys") in this context, although I find that
> the context itself rarely presents itself. Since I am a native "you
> all" (but not "y'all") speaker, perhaps I felt that the local (i.e.,
> MI) reception of my speech was less mocking, although I can hardly
> imagine how I could be even unconsciously insecure in the face of a
> bunch of Northern Cities Shifters!
>
> dInIs
>
> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> >Subject:      Re: "politics" and "guys"
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Ca.1967, the use of "you guys" by women to address groups consisting
> >entirely of women annoyed me. However, I've since been able to get
> >past that. Indeed, from time to time, I've found myself addressing a
> >group of women and / or girls as "you guys," when, in the course of
> >monitoring my speech, I've found myself reduced to a choice of that or
> >"y'all."
> >
> >-Wilson
> >
> >On 12/2/06, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>-----------------------
> >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>  Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> >>  Subject:      Re: "politics" and "guys"
> >>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>  Sorry for stupidly identifying Lucy as _Homo erectus_.
> >>
> >>    She was an Australopithecine, as I well know.
> >>
> >>    The TV reference to "politics" described the Australopithecine kind.
> >>
> >>    JL
> >>
> >>    Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>      Pt.1
> >>
> >>    Some weeks back, IIRC, I posted an example of "politics" used in
> >>the narrow sense of "simple power relationships in society; the
> >>jockeying for influence or power," or however you care to phrase
> >>it.  Some of you replied that that's pretty much what "politics"
> >>always means.
> >>    As you wish, post-Hobbesians.
> >>
> >>    As I write, though, the Discovery Science Channel is
> >>rebroadcasting a 2003 rock-u-sock-u-mentary called _Walking with
> >>Cavemen_. It makes a reference to "politics" among members of a
> >>_Homo erectus_ troop.
> >>
> >>     _H. erectus_ is, of course, the human ancestor most familiar
> >>through the fossil known as "Lucy."  These small critterfolk walked
> >>erect but seem to have had nothing comparable to a language
> >>enabling them to make political speeches, discuss nuances of
> >>governing, etc.  So their "politics" must have been  pretty close
> >>to animal dominance relationships. The show's narration doesn't
> >>even try to suggest otherwise.
> >>
> >>    Pt. 2
> >>
> >>    Long, long ago I made vague reference to Douglas R. Hofstadter's
> >>crusade against generic "you guys."  By chance, I've stumbled again
> >>onto the source, and here it is:
> >  >
> >  >   1997 D. R. Hofstadter _Le Ton Beau de Marot_ (N.Y.: Basic
> >Books) 202: In my view, the most pervasive - and for that reason by
> >far the most serious - disease of sexist usage infecting
> >contemporary American English is the
> >to-many-people-innocuous-sounding phrase "you guys" (and related
> >ways of using "guys" in directly addressing a group of people)....
> >>
> >>    And so on for a couple of oversize pages.
> >>
> >>    JL
> >>
> >>  ---------------------------------
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> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >-----
> >-Sam Clemens
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> --
> It should be the chief aim of a university professor to exhibit
> himself in his own true character - that is, as an ignorant man [sic]
> thinking, actively utilizing his small share of knowledge. Alfred
> North Whitehead
>
> There are many different religions in this world, but if you look at
> them carefully, you'll see that they all have one thing in common:
> They were invented by a giant, superintelligent slug named Dennis.
> Homer Simpson
>
> Dennis R. Preston
> University Distinguished Professor
> Department of English
> 15-C Morrill Hall
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824-1036
> Phone: (517) 353-4736
> Fax: (517) 353-3755
> preston at msu.edu
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
-Sam Clemens

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org