"politics" and "guys"

[Barbara Need]

>Animals, of course, esp. the domestic kind, are frequently referred
>to affectionately as "guys" (cf. earlier "fellow" used the same way).

And Rob in _Get Fuzzy_ refers to his pets as "the guyzos" (spelling
not certain).

Barbara

Barbara Need
UChicago

>   HDAS I has nothing before 1978 for this, undoubtedly because it
>didn't occur to me for many years to recognize this uage as
>noteworthy.
>
>   However, I do feel that its widespread use is relatively "new."  I
>believe it was used in the '50s, which is as far back as I can
>remember. Elderly people (no wisecracks) seem to prefer "critter."
>
>   I object to the politics of this usage, which serves to exalt
>animal life to fuilly human status, entailing that mere animals
>possess immortal souls, the powers of speech, reason, instant
>credit, etc.  It falsely classifies animals, compromises our
>humanity, and should be opposed and extirpated.
>
>   Goak.
>
>   So, can anybody antedate "guy" =critter?
>
>   JL
>   Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: Wilson Gray
>Subject: Re: "politics" and "guys"
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Ca.1967, the use of "you guys" by women to address groups consisting
>entirely of women annoyed me. However, I've since been able to get
>past that. Indeed, from time to time, I've found myself addressing a
>group of women and / or girls as "you guys," when, in the course of
>monitoring my speech, I've found myself reduced to a choice of that or
>"y'all."
>
>-Wilson
>
>On 12/2/06, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>  Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>  Subject: Re: "politics" and "guys"
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  Sorry for stupidly identifying Lucy as _Homo erectus_.
>>
>>  She was an Australopithecine, as I well know.
>>
>>  The TV reference to "politics" described the Australopithecine kind.
>>
>>  JL
>>
>>  Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>  Pt.1
>>
>>  Some weeks back, IIRC, I posted an example of "politics" used in
>>the narrow sense of "simple power relationships in society; the
>>jockeying for influence or power," or however you care to phrase
>>it. Some of you replied that that's pretty much what "politics"
>>always means.
>>  As you wish, post-Hobbesians.
>>
>>  As I write, though, the Discovery Science Channel is
>>rebroadcasting a 2003 rock-u-sock-u-mentary called _Walking with
>>Cavemen_. It makes a reference to "politics" among members of a
>>_Homo erectus_ troop.
>>
>>  _H. erectus_ is, of course, the human ancestor most familiar
>>through the fossil known as "Lucy." These small critterfolk walked
>>erect but seem to have had nothing comparable to a language
>>enabling them to make political speeches, discuss nuances of
>>governing, etc. So their "politics" must have been pretty close to
>>animal dominance relationships. The show's narration doesn't even
>>try to suggest otherwise.
>>
>>  Pt. 2
>>
>>  Long, long ago I made vague reference to Douglas R. Hofstadter's
>>crusade against generic "you guys." By chance, I've stumbled again
>>onto the source, and here it is:
>>
>>  1997 D. R. Hofstadter _Le Ton Beau de Marot_ (N.Y.: Basic Books)
>>202: In my view, the most pervasive - and for that reason by far
>>the most serious - disease of sexist usage infecting contemporary
>>American English is the to-many-people-innocuous-sounding phrase
>>"you guys" (and related ways of using "guys" in directly addressing
>>a group of people)....
>>
>>  And so on for a couple of oversize pages.
>>
>>  JL
>>
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>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>-Sam Clemens
>
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