Nobody's Perfect Dept.

Scot LaFaive spiderrmonkey at HOTMAIL.COM
Sun Dec 17 02:07:45 UTC 2006 

Personally, I love gratuitous vulgarity. It's fuckin' awesome.
As for his definition, I agree with it. I think his examples of "shit" and
"shite" strongly support it. For another example, how about /kak/ (cock) and
/kaek/ (cock). The latter seems to have come about in the last 10 years,
based on my personal experience.
Scot


>From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
>Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 01:49:24 +0000
>
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject:      Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Lighter,
>
>Knock off the gratuitous vulgarity.  It demeans us all.  It's almost
>bullyish.
>
>Of course your definition of phoneme
> >For lurkers, a phoneme is the smallest contrastive notional unit of
> >sound that may affect meaning in a given language.
>is defective.  Where did you get it?  Did you make it up.
>
>Substitute "does" for "may" and you come up with something that you express
>as relevant to minimum pairs below.
>
>The two definitions that were given here by you are substantially different
>from each other.  The other was  "A phoneme is the smallest significant
>unit
>in language".  This one I like.
>Do you have any more?
>
>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL4+
>See truespel.com and the 4 truespel books at authorhouse.com.
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> >Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> >Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:27:34 -0800
> >
> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> >Subject:      Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Scott, phonemes _must_ create a difference in meaning only in a minimal
> >pair.  Otherwise they don't have to. "Gorse" and "furze" are exact
>synonyms
> >in English, yet except for / r /, their phonemes are entirely
>contrastive.
> >
> >   "Shit" and "shite" are also exactly synonymous, despite their
> >resemblance to a classic minimum pair.  / I / and  / aI /  are still
> >"phonemes of English" because of the existence of, for ex., "fit" and
> >"fight."
> >
> >   Like many kinds of "notional unit," a "phoneme" has fuzzy edges in
> >practice.
> >
> >   JL
> >
> >
> >
> >    LaFaive <spiderrmonkey at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> >Poster: Scot LaFaive
> >Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >This kind of scares me, but I agree that this definition for phoneme
>seems
> >wrong. A phoneme as "the smallest contrastive notional unit of sound that
> >may affect meaning in a given language" sounds wrong because of "may."
> >Shouldn't a phoneme always affect meaning as opposed to an allophone? I
> >don't claim to be an expert, just as learner, so maybe I'm wrong.
> >
> >Scot
> >
> >
> > >From: Tom Zurinskas
> > >Reply-To: American Dialect Society
> > >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > >Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> > >Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 02:33:05 +0000
> > >
> > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >-----------------------
> > >Sender: American Dialect Society
> > >Poster: Tom Zurinskas
> > >Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > > For lurkers, a phoneme is the smallest contrastive notional unit of
> > >sound that may affect meaning in a given language
> > >
> > >This is not a good definition. I've never seen one with "may" in it.
>That
> > >also means it "may not" as well. And if it does both, why mentioin it.
> > >Makes no sense.
> > >
> > >You should clarify what "lurker" means. As I understand it a lurker is
> >one
> > >who is reading emails, but has not commented as yet. It reflects
>nothing
> > >on
> > >their expertise or intent.
> > >
> > >Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL4+
> > >See truespel.com and the 4 truespel books at authorhouse.com.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Jonathan Lighter
> > > >Reply-To: American Dialect Society
> > > >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > >Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> > > >Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:42:28 -0800
> > > >
> > > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > >-----------------------
> > > >Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > >Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > > >Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> > >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >"The smallest significant unit in language" is also misleading. Since
> > > >allophones constitute morphemes, a "phone" is in a real sense
>smaller,
> > >and
> > > >"significant" too, since you can't have a spoken language without
> >phones.
> > > >
> > > > Prof. Murfin has taught English and criticism at Yale.
> > > >
> > > > For lurkers, a phoneme is the smallest contrastive notional unit of
> > > >sound that may affect meaning in a given language.
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >"Arnold M. Zwicky" wrote:
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > >-----------------------
> > > >Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > >Poster: "Arnold M. Zwicky"
> > > >Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> > >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >On Dec 15, 2006, at 7:13 AM, Larry Horn wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> >From a professional explication for undergraduates of cultural-
> > > > >> theory terms:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Phoneme... A phoneme is the smallest significant unit in
> > > > >> language; thus, both 'a" and 'an' are phonemes, but 'n' is not."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --Ross C. Murfin, "Glossary of Theoretical and Critical Terms,"
>in
> > > > >> Daniel R. Schwarz, ed. _Joseph Conrad: The Secret Sharer...with
> > > > >> Biographical and Historical Contexts...and Essays from Five
> > > > >> Contemporary critical Perspectives_ (Boston: Bedford Books,
>1997),
> > > > >> p. 264.
> > > > >>
> > > > > Well, he got the -eme part right, anyway. Part credit.
> > > >
> > > >not even that. "a" and "an" are morphs, instances of a single
> > > >morpheme. murfin seems to be missing the abstraction in the morpheme
> > > >concept.
> > > >
> > > >ok, to be generous, you can read him as using "morpheme" to mean
> > > >'instance of a morpheme'. so there are two morphemes in "an owl" and
> > > >two in "a bird".
> > > >
> > > >in any case, the examples are not well chosen. the reader has to
> > > >figure out (from their juxtaposition) that the "a" and "an" in
> > > >question are the indefinite article and not any of the other things
> > > >spelled "a" or "an" (many of which are not morphemes). note that the
> > > >use of spelling is problematic. as is the fact that these morphemes
> > > >are also words.
> > > >
> > > >there's plenty of room here for misunderstanding.
> > > >
> > > >arnold
> > > >
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