Hawaiianisms; righteous

[Laurence Horn]

At 7:50 AM -0800 1/14/06, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>I don't believe I ever encountered these specific forms in NYC.  If
>a restaurant, for example, offered the patty on a plate w/o the bun,
>with side orders of vegetables, the item was called "chopped steak"
>or "chopped beefsteak."
>
>   Butchers used these terms as well.

I have a very negative association with "hamburg(er) steak", as well
as with "Salisbury steak", which I think comes from their being used
in institutional settings, in particular high school cafeterias and
college dining halls.  I don't think it's used anymore, and my 23
year old son just claimed he was totally unfamiliar with the
"hamburg(er) steak" locution.

larry
>
>Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: Wilson Gray
>Subject: Re: Hawaiianisms; righteous
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>In what part(s) of the country is either "hamburger steak" or "hamburg
>steak" used? Just asking for information.
>
>-Wilson Gray
>
>
>On 1/13/06, Douglas G. Wilson wrote:
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>  Poster: "Douglas G. Wilson"
>>  Subject: Re: Hawaiianisms; righteous
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  >In Kihei, I spotted a "hamburg" dish. I suppose that's the same as the
>>  >Japanese hambaagu, made by cooking a mixture of ground beef, vegetables and
>>  >sauce.
>>
>>  I think the Japanese "hambaagu [suteiki]" is etymologically identical to
>>  the English (US) "hamburg [steak]", although the typical referent may have
>>  regional variations. The usual current US form would be "hamburger
>>  [steak]", I think. The referent would be a lump or patty of ground beef
>>  with more or less of various fillers (often more fillers in East Asia than
>>  in US in my very limited experience). As I mentioned in an earlier message
>>  the term "hamburger steak" has existed (US) alongside the apparently
>>  synonymous "hamburg steak" since the 1890's, with "hamburger steak"
>>  predominating only since the 1940's or so. I would suppose that the
>>  English/Hawaiian "hamburg" is merely a conservative equivalent of
>>  "hamburger", then, rather than an adoption from Japanese, although given
>>  that it's in Hawaii one might suppose that this conservative form might be
>>  stabilized by Japanese tourism. I deny any expertise.
>>
>>  -- Doug Wilson
>>
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