Knickerbockers
Wilson Gray
hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Thu Mar 30 20:54:17 UTC 2006
Thanks, George. FWIW, "Oleg" and "Igor" are Russianized versions of the
Swedish-Viking names, "Helgi" and "Ingvarr." All Russian rulers, through
Ivan the Terrible, were held to be direct descendants of the Swedish Viking,
Roerikr. The line was known as the "Riurikovich."
-Wilson
On 3/30/06, George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Cholly Knickerbocker" was a society columnist for the tabloids. I
> see from Google that he was actually Igor Cassini, who died at a very
> advanced age a few years ago, the brother of Oleg Cassini, the fashion
> designer, who died at an even more advanced age a few weeks ago.
>
> GAT
>
> George A. Thompson
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:47 pm
> Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
>
> > Wasn't there, in more recent times, ca. the 1940's (a WAG), a
> > [stereo]typical New-Yorker known as "Charles / Charlie / Cholly
> > / etc. Knickerbocker" or some such? For years, I "remembered"
> > this "person" as the embodiment of the New Yorker magazine.
> > Needless to say, I was wrong about that and I've since been
> > unable to recall where I actually came across this "C[whatever]
> > Knickerbocker."
> >
> > -Wilson
> >
> > On 3/29/06, George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster: George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> > > Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------------
> > >
> > > > I believe that Washington Irving was using the pseudonym
> > > > 'Knickerbocker' by
> > > > or before 1809, when his 'History of New York...' was first
> > > published.
> > > >
> > > > Michael McKernan
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes, and that is cited in the OED entry, in [], but the
> next
> > > entry, the first post-Irving entry, is from 1848.
> > > Irving also was the first to call NYC "Gotham" -- "Gotham"
> > > caught on as a nickname faster and more thoroughly
> > > than "Knickerbocker" did, although the OED's entry on Gotham
> > (1b) has
> > > only 2 cites referring to NYC: Irving's original, from 1807, and
> > > another from 1852.
> > >
> > > WILLIAM JACKSON. Mockasin Maker to the Inhabitants of this
> > > renowned City of Gotham. Commercial Advertiser, May 11, 1811,
> > p. 3,
> > > col.
> > >
> > > Petition of the Gymnasium to the Legislature of Gotham.
> > New-
> > > York American, March 1, 1822, p. 2, cols. 4-5 [a mock petition for
> > > support in erecting a gymnasium for the practice of fencing and
> > > boxing, addressed to the members of the State Senate and House of
> > > Assembly.]
> > >
> > > Yankee tricks; latest edition. -- The following are facts,
> > > without names, which we are informed took place, literally and
> > truly,> as we shall relate, without embellishment. We publish
> > them by way of
> > > putting the unsuspicious inhabitants of Gotham on their guard
> > against> the tricks that are sometimes played off on their
> > credulity, by the
> > > people of the land of wooden nutmegs. New-York Evening Post,
> > May 17,
> > > 1823, p. 2, col. 1 [a Yankee sells an attractively spotted pony
> > to a
> > > Wall-street broker; the broker rides it to a lather, the spots wash
> > > off]
> > >
> > > GAT
> > >
> > > George A. Thompson
> > > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
> > Northwestern> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Michael McKernan <mckernan at LOCALNET.COM>
> > > Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 0:16 am
> > > Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
> > >
> > > > George Thompson wrote:
> > > > >Subject: Knickerbockers
> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > > > -------------
> > > > >
> > > > >I was surprised to notice that the earliest that the OED has for
> > > this
> > > > >word as meaning a generic New Yorker was 1848.
> > > > >
> > > > > A band of music immediately struck up a lively air,
> > and the
> > > > >proprietor of the Flag-Staff, a genuine old Knickerbocker,
> > threw up
> > > > >rockets from the top of this building in honor of the Club's
> > > success.
> > > > > New-York Daily Advertiser, November 13, 1820, p. 2,
> cols.
> > > > 1-2
> > > > >The club referred to was the Knickerbocker Club, a rowing club,
> > > which
> > > > >had won a boat race; its boat had been built by an American, the
> > > > rival>boat by an English immigrant.
> > > > >
> > > > > KNICKERBOCKER LIVERY STABLES.
> > > > > New-York Gazette & General Advertiser, April 25,
> > 1823, p. 3,
> > > > >col. 3 Caption to an ad.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Knickerbockers on the Fourth. *** It [a booth
> > selling> > >food] will be highly decorated and furnished with
> > every thing
> > > capable
> > > > >of making the Knicks smack their lips.
> > > > > Morning Courier & New-York Enquirer, July 2, 1830, p. 2,
> > > col.
> > > > >2. Note also the abbreviation of Knickerbocker to Knick.
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > George A. Thompson
> > > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
> > Northwestern> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Michael McKernan <mckernan at LOCALNET.COM>
> > > Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 0:16 am
> > > Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
> > >
> > > > George Thompson wrote:
> > > > >Subject: Knickerbockers
> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > > > -------------
> > > > >
> > > > >I was surprised to notice that the earliest that the OED has for
> > > this
> > > > >word as meaning a generic New Yorker was 1848.
> > > > >
> > > > > A band of music immediately struck up a lively air,
> > and the
> > > > >proprietor of the Flag-Staff, a genuine old Knickerbocker,
> > threw up
> > > > >rockets from the top of this building in honor of the Club's
> > > success.
> > > > > New-York Daily Advertiser, November 13, 1820, p. 2,
> cols.
> > > > 1-2
> > > > >The club referred to was the Knickerbocker Club, a rowing club,
> > > which
> > > > >had won a boat race; its boat had been built by an American, the
> > > > rival>boat by an English immigrant.
> > > > >
> > > > > KNICKERBOCKER LIVERY STABLES.
> > > > > New-York Gazette & General Advertiser, April 25,
> > 1823, p. 3,
> > > > >col. 3 Caption to an ad.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Knickerbockers on the Fourth. *** It [a booth
> > selling> > >food] will be highly decorated and furnished with
> > every thing
> > > capable
> > > > >of making the Knicks smack their lips.
> > > > > Morning Courier & New-York Enquirer, July 2, 1830, p. 2,
> > > col.
> > > > >2. Note also the abbreviation of Knickerbocker to Knick.
> > > >
> > > > I believe that Washington Irving was using the pseudonym
> > > > 'Knickerbocker' by
> > > > or before 1809, when his 'History of New York...' was first
> > > published.
> > > >
> > > > Michael McKernan
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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