Knickerbockers
George Thompson
george.thompson at NYU.EDU
Thu Mar 30 23:27:24 UTC 2006
I had posted > "Cholly Knickerbocker" was a society columnist for the
tabloids. I
> see from Google that he was actually Igor Cassini, who died at a very
> advanced age a few years ago. . . .
Barry adds, quoting his website. Cafe Society "Cafe Society" was
coined by Cholly Knickerbocker (Maury Paul) at the New ... There was a
movie titled Cafe Society (1939). Lucius Beebe consulted on the ...
www.barrypopik.com/article/793/cafe-society
I hadn't actually read the stuff Google threw up, beyond the excerpts
on its first page, so maybe I was mistaken in thinking the sources
were identifying "Cholly Knickerbocker" as Igor Cassini. On the other
hand, perhpas both Maury Paul and cassini were at different times
hired to write the "Cholly Knickerbocker" column.
"There was a movie titled Cafe Society (1939)." I might add that
there was also a jazz club in the Village called Cafe Society so
notorious for harboring leftists that it was scrutinized by J. Edgar
Hoover. Driven out of business, in fact, I believe. Author: Stowe,
David W. Title: THE POLITICS OF CAFE SOCIETY. Citation: Journal of
American History 1998 84(4): 1384-1406. ISSN: 0021-8723
GAT
George A. Thompson
Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre", Northwestern
Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
----- Original Message -----
From: bapopik at AOL.COM
Date: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:59 am
Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
> Ah, I was looking around the internet and I found this.
> ...
> ...
> The Big Apple: Cafe Society "Cafe Society" was coined by Cholly
> Knickerbocker (Maury Paul) at the New ... There was a movie titled
> Cafe Society (1939). Lucius Beebe consulted on the ...
> www.barrypopik.com/article/793/cafe-society - 7k - Cached -
> Similar pages
>
> ...
> ...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Sent: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:53:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
>
>
, the brother of Oleg Cassini, the fashion
> designer, who died at an even more advanced age a few weeks ago.
>
> GAT
>
> George A. Thompson
> Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
Northwestern
> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:47 pm
> Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
>
> > Wasn't there, in more recent times, ca. the 1940's (a WAG), a
> > [stereo]typical New-Yorker known as "Charles / Charlie / Cholly
> > / etc. Knickerbocker" or some such? For years, I "remembered"
> > this "person" as the embodiment of the New Yorker magazine.
> > Needless to say, I was wrong about that and I've since been
> > unable to recall where I actually came across this "C[whatever]
> > Knickerbocker."
> >
> > -Wilson
> >
> > On 3/29/06, George Thompson <george.thompson at nyu.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster: George Thompson <george.thompson at NYU.EDU>
> > > Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --------------
> > >
> > > > I believe that Washington Irving was using the pseudonym
> > > > 'Knickerbocker' by
> > > > or before 1809, when his 'History of New York...' was first
> > > published.
> > > >
> > > > Michael McKernan
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes, and that is cited in the OED entry, in [], but the
> next
> > > entry, the first post-Irving entry, is from 1848.
> > > Irving also was the first to call NYC "Gotham" --
"Gotham"
> > > caught on as a nickname faster and more thoroughly
> > > than "Knickerbocker" did, although the OED's entry on Gotham
> > (1b) has
> > > only 2 cites referring to NYC: Irving's original, from 1807, and
> > > another from 1852.
> > >
> > > WILLIAM JACKSON. Mockasin Maker to the Inhabitants of
> this> > renowned City of Gotham. Commercial Advertiser, May 11,
1811,
> > p. 3,
> > > col.
> > >
> > > Petition of the Gymnasium to the Legislature of Gotham.
> > New-
> > > York American, March 1, 1822, p. 2, cols. 4-5 [a mock petition
for
> > > support in erecting a gymnasium for the practice of fencing and
> > > boxing, addressed to the members of the State Senate and House of
> > > Assembly.]
> > >
> > > Yankee tricks; latest edition. -- The following are
facts,
> > > without names, which we are informed took place, literally and
> > truly,> as we shall relate, without embellishment. We publish
> > them by way of
> > > putting the unsuspicious inhabitants of Gotham on their guard
> > against> the tricks that are sometimes played off on their
> > credulity, by the
> > > people of the land of wooden nutmegs. New-York Evening Post,
> > May 17,
> > > 1823, p. 2, col. 1 [a Yankee sells an attractively spotted pony
> > to a
> > > Wall-street broker; the broker rides it to a lather, the spots
> wash> > off]
> > >
> > > GAT
> > >
> > > George A. Thompson
> > > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
> > Northwestern> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Michael McKernan <mckernan at LOCALNET.COM>
> > > Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 0:16 am
> > > Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
> > >
> > > > George Thompson wrote:
> > > > >Subject: Knickerbockers
> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ----
> > > > -------------
> > > > >
> > > > >I was surprised to notice that the earliest that the OED
> has for
> > > this
> > > > >word as meaning a generic New Yorker was 1848.
> > > > >
> > > > > A band of music immediately struck up a lively air,
> > and the
> > > > >proprietor of the Flag-Staff, a genuine old Knickerbocker,
> > threw up
> > > > >rockets from the top of this building in honor of the Club's
> > > success.
> > > > > New-York Daily Advertiser, November 13, 1820, p. 2,
> cols.
> > > > 1-2
> > > > >The club referred to was the Knickerbocker Club, a rowing
club,
> > > which
> > > > >had won a boat race; its boat had been built by an
> American, the
> > > > rival>boat by an English immigrant.
> > > > >
> > > > > KNICKERBOCKER LIVERY STABLES.
> > > > > New-York Gazette & General Advertiser, April 25,
> > 1823, p. 3,
> > > > >col. 3 Caption to an ad.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Knickerbockers on the Fourth. *** It [a booth
> > selling> > >food] will be highly decorated and furnished with
> > every thing
> > > capable
> > > > >of making the Knicks smack their lips.
> > > > > Morning Courier & New-York Enquirer, July 2, 1830,
> p. 2,
> > > col.
> > > > >2. Note also the abbreviation of Knickerbocker to Knick.
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > George A. Thompson
> > > Author of A Documentary History of "The African Theatre",
> > Northwestern> Univ. Pr., 1998, but nothing much lately.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Michael McKernan <mckernan at LOCALNET.COM>
> > > Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 0:16 am
> > > Subject: Re: Knickerbockers
> > >
> > > > George Thompson wrote:
> > > > >Subject: Knickerbockers
> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ----
> > > > -------------
> > > > >
> > > > >I was surprised to notice that the earliest that the OED
> has for
> > > this
> > > > >word as meaning a generic New Yorker was 1848.
> > > > >
> > > > > A band of music immediately struck up a lively air,
> > and the
> > > > >proprietor of the Flag-Staff, a genuine old Knickerbocker,
> > threw up
> > > > >rockets from the top of this building in honor of the Club's
> > > success.
> > > > > New-York Daily Advertiser, November 13, 1820, p. 2,
> cols.
> > > > 1-2
> > > > >The club referred to was the Knickerbocker Club, a rowing
club,
> > > which
> > > > >had won a boat race; its boat had been built by an
> American, the
> > > > rival>boat by an English immigrant.
> > > > >
> > > > > KNICKERBOCKER LIVERY STABLES.
> > > > > New-York Gazette & General Advertiser, April 25,
> > 1823, p. 3,
> > > > >col. 3 Caption to an ad.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Knickerbockers on the Fourth. *** It [a booth
> > selling> > >food] will be highly decorated and furnished with
> > every thing
> > > capable
> > > > >of making the Knicks smack their lips.
> > > > > Morning Courier & New-York Enquirer, July 2, 1830,
> p. 2,
> > > col.
> > > > >2. Note also the abbreviation of Knickerbocker to Knick.
> > > >
> > > > I believe that Washington Irving was using the pseudonym
> > > > 'Knickerbocker' by
> > > > or before 1809, when his 'History of New York...' was first
> > > published.
> > > >
> > > > Michael McKernan
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
------------------------------------------------------------
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