Race/racism and the late Prof. Frederic G. Cassidy

[Wilson Gray]

Aw, I was jes' funnin' witcha, Beverly. :-) Please excuse my feeble
attempt at humor. The movie is definitely worth seeing again, but for
the story and, especially, the music than for the subtitles.

-Wilson

On 11/4/06, Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at ohio.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Race/racism and the late Prof. Frederic G. Cassidy
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Wow, your memory may be better than mine, Wilson--but I'll rent the video
> again and check it out!
>
> At 11:00 PM 11/3/2006, you wrote:
> >My impression of the sub-titling of "The Harder They Come" is slightly
> >different from yours, Beverly. It seems to me that the subtitles
> >appear only when the dialogue is such any native speaker of any
> >variety of English can understand what's being said. Otherwise, the
> >viewer is on his own! :-) As when the fair-complexioned detective,
> >switching into creole, said to the black peasant:
> >
> >"Me stop chase Ivan. Me start chase you!"
> >
> >-WIlson
> >
> >On 11/3/06, Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at ohio.edu> wrote:
> >>---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>-----------------------
> >>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>
> >>Subject:      Re: Race/racism and the late Prof. Frederic G. Cassidy
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>I forgot to mention what is perhaps obvious: Fred's father's Canadian
> >>English would not have been British either, and it probably sounded less
> >>"British" than his mother's Jamaican English (I'm not referring to Creole,
> >>of course).  Incidentally, I was always under the impression Fred was
> >>"mixed," since I first met him in 1978 or so.  (I actually got a letter
> >>from him in 1960, telling me he had no more financial aid for me at
> >>Wisconsin--so I went to St. Louis U instead; but I still have his lovely
> >>letter!)   As someone else pointed out, the "Black" majority in Jamaica
> >>comes in all shades.
> >>
> >>One more incidentally: If you see "The Harder They Come," you'll note that
> >>the film starts out with English subtitles for the Creole dialogue and then
> >>drops them about halfway through on the assumption that the audience will
> >>have caught on to the "Patois" by then--not always a safe assumption!
> >>
> >>-----------------
> >>It's common for many Jamaicans to speak both Standard Jamaican English
> >>(SJE)--which is not really "British" English but sounds closer to it than
> >>to American English--and Jamaican Creole (JC).  The schools teach SJE, but
> >>the vernacular of most people is JC, especially young people in their peer
> >>groups; a varied continuum exists between the two.  I suspect this is what
> >>is meant in the passage below.
> >>
> >>At 09:03 PM 11/1/2006, you wrote:
> >> >On the web I find a memorial resolution of the University of Wisconsin
> >> >faculty containing the following information:
> >> >
> >> >"Cassidy's interest in Creole English came naturally enough -- he was born
> >> >in Kingston, Jamaica, in 1907, to a Canadian father and a Jamaican mother.
> >> >He grew up hearing their two varieties of standard British English and the
> >> >Creole variety of the Black majority as well."
> >> >
> >> >I'm not certain how to interpret this, but it sounds like his mother was
> >> >Jamaican but not a member of the Black majority.
> >> >
> >> >Fred Shapiro
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >Fred R. Shapiro                             Editor
> >> >Associate Librarian for Collections and     YALE BOOK OF QUOTATIONS
> >> >   Access and Lecturer in Legal Research     Yale University Press
> >> >Yale Law School                             ISBN 0300107986
> >> >e-mail: fred.shapiro at yale.edu               http://quotationdictionary.com
> >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
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> >--
> >Everybody says, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
> >complaint to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >-----
> >Whoever has lived long enough to find out what life is knows how deep
> >a debt of gratitude we owe to Adam, the first great benefactor of our
> >race. He brought death into the world.
> >
> >--Sam Clemens
> >
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--
Everybody says, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
complaint to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
Whoever has lived long enough to find out what life is knows how deep
a debt of gratitude we owe to Adam, the first great benefactor of our
race. He brought death into the world.

--Sam Clemens

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org