Fwd: Re: Fwd: BE "been VERB NP"

Tue Nov 28 21:03:01 UTC 2006

Re.: Lighter's query on "I've been knowin' her for a long time":  We just
discussed this in July, so I'll forward John Rickford's reply on his own
research into BIN.  Note the difference between stressed and unstressed
"been"; is this also important for white Southerners?

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>Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:39:22 -0700
>To: "Arnold M. Zwicky" <zwicky at csli.stanford.edu>
>From: John Rickford <rickford at stanford.edu>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: BE "been VERB NP"
>Cc: hwgray at GMAIL.COM, flanigan at ohio.edu
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>Hi Arnold:
>
>The article was actually this one, reprinted in my 1999 AAVE book
>(Cambridge U Press):  1975    "Carrying the New Wave into Syntax:  the
>Case of Black English BIN."  In Analyzing Variation in Language, ed. R.
>Fasold and R. Shuy, 162-83. Washington, D. C.:  Georgetown U. Press.
>
>In the article, I don't say that "BIN knowing" is non-occurrent (even
>though __Ving occurs more often with unstressed been, and with "for a long
>time" or similar  time adverbials, which stressed BIN does not).  In fact
>I have one example with both of them:
>
>3:  I BIN know you, you know,  I bin (unstressed) knowing you for
>years.  (Black male, 59, Philadelphia)
>
>Moreover, if you go to the acceptability ratings I received from 25 Black
>speakers (table 2.6), you'll see that BIN knowing gets the second highest
>acceptability rating (only 2 respondents don't like it), and that BIN knew
>is also a feasible variant (only six speakers don't like it).
>
>As you know--I don't subscribe to the LISTSERV myself--if I did, I'd
>probably get involved in all these fascinating issues and I have a hard
>enough time as it is staying on top of email.  So I'll cc this to Wilson
>and Beverly, and ask you or one of them to post it to the list if it seems
>worthwhile.  Thanks for drawing my attention to this discussion.
>
>Best,
>John R.
>
>>Begin forwarded message:
>>>From: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>Date: July 1, 2006 5:46:07 PM PDT
>>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>Subject: Re: BE "been VERB NP"
>>>Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>
>>>Thanks for the info, Beverly. Now, the only mystery is why it is that
>>>John R is familiar only with the type "BEEN know," whereas I'm
>>>familiar only with the type "BEEN knowin'." Maybe it has to do with my
>>>having grown up in St. Louis, which has a well-known rep as a dialect
>>>island.
>>>
>>>And I'm glad to hear that the construction is still alive and kicking,
>>>whether with or without the -in'!
>>>
>>>-Wilson
>>>
>>>On 7/1/06, Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at ohio.edu> wrote:
>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>
>>>>Subject:      Re: BE "been VERB NP"
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>It's John and Angela Rickford, in a joint article from the late '70s?  But
>>>>Labov discusses it too, in "Is BEV a Separate Language?" (maybe not the
>>>>exact title); it's also in the _Language in the Inner City_ volume
>>>>(1972).  They don't cite BEEN + past tense (or past participle) though.  I
>>>>tested it on a black student this spring, and he knew the difference the
>>>>stress on 'been' made in meaning.
>>>>
>>>>At 07:37 PM 6/30/2006, you wrote:
>>>> >Is it John Rickford or John Baugh who owns this construction? I've
>>>> >lost track, over the years. In any case, whichever John it is has such
>>>> >command over it that this is the first time that I've gone public with
>>>> >the fact that, except for John's examples, I have *never* heard, e.g.
>>>> >"I BEEN _know_ that." I'm personally familiar only with "I BEEN
>>>> >_knowing_ that" or even simply, "knowing this." Today, on one of the
>>>> >"Judge" shows, I heard, for the first time, a black speaker - or a
>>>> >speaker of any other race, creed, color, or sexual orientation, for
>>>> >that matter - say, "She BEEN _knew_ that."
>>>> >
>>>> >-Wilson Gray
>>>> >
>>>> >------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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