change from the bottom up

[Jonathan Lighter]

In World War I this was even more common than "SNAFU" in World War II.

  It was politely translated as "short of luck" or "soldier out of luck."  A writer in _AS_
  ca 1930 said  that the initialism "stood for something so obscene no woman ever knew what it was."  She had been a canteen worker overseas in 1918.

  JL

Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU> wrote:
  ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: Beverly Flanigan
Subject: Re: change from the bottom up
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOL! My mother used that phrase all the time (as a proper 1906-born woman,
she wouldn't swear openly, of course). I know what it means, but where
does it come from, anyone? And do younger people know it, I wonder?

At 11:01 AM 4/19/2007, you wrote:
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: Wilson Gray
>Subject: Re: change from the bottom up was re: accusative cursing
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Not to mention certain pronunciations and turns of phrase that are now
>felt as standard. Several years ago, I came across a reprint of a
>perhaps century-old book with a title something like, A Lexicon of the
>Speech of the Southern-Alabama Negro. Though I've tried for the past
>couple of years to track down this publication, I've not been
>successful. I've been hoping to see it mentioned by someone here, but,
>so far, I''ve been SOL. IAC, the number of now-ordinary words and
>phrases that the compiler specifies as peculiar to the speech of black
>Southern-Alabamians is quite surprising. Unfortunately, I can recall
>only one trivial example: the pronunciation of the verb, "stamp," as
>though it was spelled "stomp," a pronunciation that some authors, e.g.
>Roger Abrahams, WRT the speech of black Philadelphians, still
>considered to be only a black thang as recently as the '60's.
>
>-Wilson
>
>On 4/17/07, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > Subject: Re: change from the bottom up was re: accusative cursing
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I agree, though Black English is not the only source. However, it
> certainly has contributed a great number of (more or less) identifiable
> slang expressions to general American English since the Swing Era and
> especially since the 1960s.
> >
> > Slang by (my) definition originates in contexts regarded as
> indecorous by speakers of prestige dialects.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > Amy West wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Amy West
> > Subject: change from the bottom up was re: accusative cursing
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Hmmm...I like CPE; however I wonder if my students will be more
> > confused if I use that while our Longman's Writer's Companion uses
> > SWE.
> >
> > I'm much more interested by the "phonetic changes work up" statement.
> > I've run across a similar analysis relating to slang terms entering
> > the language in a chapter in _Slam Dunks & No-Brainers_ where the
> > author argues that many slang terms work their way "up" from Black
> > Vernacular English into the dominant dialect. Being a newbie, I
> > wasn't sure if this was a consensus view in the field or not.
> >
> > ---Amy West
> >
> > >I use, and prefer, the term Conventional Plublic English, rather than
> > >Standard English, because, of course, there are no language standards,
> just
> > >lots of opinions, and opinions influence conventions, but not standards.
> > >Labov's, Wolfram's and Trudgill's research indicates that phonetic changes
> > >work up rather than down suggests that conventions, not standards, are
> > >altered from below. Have you looked at your son's pants lately?
> > >
> > >JCS
> >
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> >
> >
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>
>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
> -Sam'l Clemens
>
>"Experience" is the ability to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
>
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