change from the bottom up

[Beverly Flanigan]

Oh, my mother knew what it stood for!  When as a kid I asked her, she
whispered it to me.

At 01:13 PM 4/19/2007, you wrote:
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>Subject:      Re: change from the bottom up
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>In World War I this was even more common than "SNAFU" in World War II.
>
>   It was politely translated as "short of luck" or "soldier out of
> luck."  A writer in _AS_
>   ca 1930 said  that the initialism "stood for something so obscene no
> woman ever knew what it was."  She had been a canteen worker overseas in 1918.
>
>   JL
>
>Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU> wrote:
>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: Beverly Flanigan
>Subject: Re: change from the bottom up
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>SOL! My mother used that phrase all the time (as a proper 1906-born woman,
>she wouldn't swear openly, of course). I know what it means, but where
>does it come from, anyone? And do younger people know it, I wonder?
>
>At 11:01 AM 4/19/2007, you wrote:
> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> >Poster: Wilson Gray
> >Subject: Re: change from the bottom up was re: accusative cursing
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> >
> >Not to mention certain pronunciations and turns of phrase that are now
> >felt as standard. Several years ago, I came across a reprint of a
> >perhaps century-old book with a title something like, A Lexicon of the
> >Speech of the Southern-Alabama Negro. Though I've tried for the past
> >couple of years to track down this publication, I've not been
> >successful. I've been hoping to see it mentioned by someone here, but,
> >so far, I''ve been SOL. IAC, the number of now-ordinary words and
> >phrases that the compiler specifies as peculiar to the speech of black
> >Southern-Alabamians is quite surprising. Unfortunately, I can recall
> >only one trivial example: the pronunciation of the verb, "stamp," as
> >though it was spelled "stomp," a pronunciation that some authors, e.g.
> >Roger Abrahams, WRT the speech of black Philadelphians, still
> >considered to be only a black thang as recently as the '60's.
> >
> >-Wilson
> >
> >On 4/17/07, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > > Subject: Re: change from the bottom up was re: accusative cursing
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > I agree, though Black English is not the only source. However, it
> > certainly has contributed a great number of (more or less) identifiable
> > slang expressions to general American English since the Swing Era and
> > especially since the 1960s.
> > >
> > > Slang by (my) definition originates in contexts regarded as
> > indecorous by speakers of prestige dialects.
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > > Amy West wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > Poster: Amy West
> > > Subject: change from the bottom up was re: accusative cursing
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Hmmm...I like CPE; however I wonder if my students will be more
> > > confused if I use that while our Longman's Writer's Companion uses
> > > SWE.
> > >
> > > I'm much more interested by the "phonetic changes work up" statement.
> > > I've run across a similar analysis relating to slang terms entering
> > > the language in a chapter in _Slam Dunks & No-Brainers_ where the
> > > author argues that many slang terms work their way "up" from Black
> > > Vernacular English into the dominant dialect. Being a newbie, I
> > > wasn't sure if this was a consensus view in the field or not.
> > >
> > > ---Amy West
> > >
> > > >I use, and prefer, the term Conventional Plublic English, rather than
> > > >Standard English, because, of course, there are no language standards,
> > just
> > > >lots of opinions, and opinions influence conventions, but not standards.
> > > >Labov's, Wolfram's and Trudgill's research indicates that phonetic
> changes
> > > >work up rather than down suggests that conventions, not standards, are
> > > >altered from below. Have you looked at your son's pants lately?
> > > >
> > > >JCS
> > >
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> >
> >
> >--
> >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> >-----
> > -Sam'l Clemens
> >
> >"Experience" is the ability to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
> >
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