change from the bottom up

Thu Apr 19 17:44:55 UTC 2007

>Oh, my mother knew what it stood for!  When as a kid I asked her, she
>whispered it to me.

I always thought it should be SOOL.

LH

>
>At 01:13 PM 4/19/2007, you wrote:
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>>Subject:      Re: change from the bottom up
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>In World War I this was even more common than "SNAFU" in World War II.
>>
>>   It was politely translated as "short of luck" or "soldier out of
>>luck."  A writer in _AS_
>>   ca 1930 said  that the initialism "stood for something so obscene no
>>woman ever knew what it was."  She had been a canteen worker
>>overseas in 1918.
>>
>>   JL
>>
>>Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU> wrote:
>>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>Poster: Beverly Flanigan
>>Subject: Re: change from the bottom up
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>SOL! My mother used that phrase all the time (as a proper 1906-born woman,
>>she wouldn't swear openly, of course). I know what it means, but where
>>does it come from, anyone? And do younger people know it, I wonder?
>>
>>At 11:01 AM 4/19/2007, you wrote:
>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>Poster: Wilson Gray
>>>Subject: Re: change from the bottom up was re: accusative cursing
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>------
>>>
>>>Not to mention certain pronunciations and turns of phrase that are now
>>>felt as standard. Several years ago, I came across a reprint of a
>>>perhaps century-old book with a title something like, A Lexicon of the
>>>Speech of the Southern-Alabama Negro. Though I've tried for the past
>>>couple of years to track down this publication, I've not been
>>>successful. I've been hoping to see it mentioned by someone here, but,
>>>so far, I''ve been SOL. IAC, the number of now-ordinary words and
>>>phrases that the compiler specifies as peculiar to the speech of black
>>>Southern-Alabamians is quite surprising. Unfortunately, I can recall
>>>only one trivial example: the pronunciation of the verb, "stamp," as
>>>though it was spelled "stomp," a pronunciation that some authors, e.g.
>>>Roger Abrahams, WRT the speech of black Philadelphians, still
>>>considered to be only a black thang as recently as the '60's.
>>>
>>>-Wilson
>>>
>>>On 4/17/07, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>>  > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>  > Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>  > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>>>  > Subject: Re: change from the bottom up was re: accusative cursing
>>>  >
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  >
>>>  > I agree, though Black English is not the only source. However, it
>>>  certainly has contributed a great number of (more or less) identifiable
>>>  slang expressions to general American English since the Swing Era and
>>>  especially since the 1960s.
>>>  >
>>>  > Slang by (my) definition originates in contexts regarded as
>>>  indecorous by speakers of prestige dialects.
>>>  >
>>>  > JL
>>>  >
>>>  > Amy West wrote:
>>>  > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>  > Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>  > Poster: Amy West
>>>  > Subject: change from the bottom up was re: accusative cursing
>>>  >
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  >
>>>  > Hmmm...I like CPE; however I wonder if my students will be more
>>>  > confused if I use that while our Longman's Writer's Companion uses
>>>  > SWE.
>>>  >
>>>  > I'm much more interested by the "phonetic changes work up" statement.
>>>  > I've run across a similar analysis relating to slang terms entering
>>>  > the language in a chapter in _Slam Dunks & No-Brainers_ where the
>>  > > author argues that many slang terms work their way "up" from Black
>>>  > Vernacular English into the dominant dialect. Being a newbie, I
>>>  > wasn't sure if this was a consensus view in the field or not.
>>>  >
>>>  > ---Amy West
>>>  >
>>>  > >I use, and prefer, the term Conventional Plublic English, rather than
>>>  > >Standard English, because, of course, there are no language standards,
>>>  just
>>>  > >lots of opinions, and opinions influence conventions, but not standards.
>>>  > >Labov's, Wolfram's and Trudgill's research indicates that phonetic
>>changes
>>>  > >work up rather than down suggests that conventions, not standards, are
>>>  > >altered from below. Have you looked at your son's pants lately?
>>>  > >
>>>  > >JCS
>>>  >
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>>>
>>>--
>>>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>>>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>-----
>>>  -Sam'l Clemens
>>>
>>>"Experience" is the ability to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
>>>
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>>
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>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>>  Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>>
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>
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