Sure don't
Montgomery Michael
ullans at YAHOO.COM
Sun Aug 5 01:57:56 UTC 2007
I've done a little testing of "sure" + negatives and
present the findings below, based on the ears of two
people, me and a friend who is a life-long resident of
lower South Carolina. For me the response with "sure"
+ negative is fine following five different syntactic
patterns, for six different auxiliaries. For my
friend, they are as well, but in response to the c and
d sentences below she is more comfortable with, e.g.
"No, he doesn't" rather than "He sure doesn't" for 1c
and 1d. Ditto for all six sets for her. Larry, as
the negation-meister, can you explain?
The intonation for "sure" + negative responses is for
us usually 233, 334, or 234, always with a
rising-falling contour on the final segment. It is
this contour with a high pitch (level 4) that is
probably what threw Lise Winer off in southern
Illinois. She was used to that that intonation with
affirmatives, to express approval, but it did not
compute for a salesperson to respond that "we sure
don't" have a certain product.
Michael
1 a He doesn’t understand. He sure doesn’t.
b He doesn’t understand, does he? "
c He sure doesn’t understand. "
d He sure doesn’t understand, does he? "
e Does he understand? "
2 a We haven't seen the last of him. We sure
haven’t.
b We haven’t seen the last of him, have we? "
c We sure haven't seen the last of him. "
d We sure haven't seen the last of him, have we? "
e Have we seen the last of him? "
3 a They aren't telling the truth. They sure
aren’t.
b They aren’t telling the truth, are they? "
c They sure aren't telling the truth. "
d They sure aren't telling the truth, are they? "
e Are they telling the truth? "
4 a She won’t make that mistake again. She sure won’t.
b She won’t make that mistake again, will she? "
c She sure won’t make that mistake again. "
d She sure won’t make that mistake again, will she?
"
e Will she make that mistake again? "
5 a They shouldn’t be doing that. They sure
shouldn’t.
b They shouldn’t be doing that, should they? "
c They sure shouldn’t be doing that. "
d They sure shouldn’t be doing that, should they? "
e Should they be doing that? "
6 a He can’t carry a tune. They sure can’t.
b He can’t carry a tune, can he? "
c He sure can’t carry a tune. "
d He sure can't carry a tune, can he? "
e Can he carry a tune "
--- Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at ohio.edu> wrote:
> It's common here in southern Ohio too (South
> Midland/Appalachian), and with
> all the verbs mentioned (including 'won't' and
> 'can't'). But I wonder if I
> haven't heard/said this usage all my life, in
> Minnesota too? Or maybe
> that's Arnold's misremembering again.
>
> It only follows a negative statement though, as you
> both have pointed out,
> unlike the New England "So don't I" in response to a
> positive
> statement. Since no one responded to my query about
> "so don't I" possibly
> following a negative statement as well, I assume it
> wouldn't? Except in
> the form "Neither do I," I assume.
>
> Beverly
>
> At 06:04 PM 7/31/2007, you wrote:
> >---------------------- Information from the mail
> header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Poster: Montgomery Michael <ullans at YAHOO.COM>
> >Subject: Re: Sure don't
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Dear Larry
> >
> >Belated thanks for the link to the Atlantic story.
> >The usage sure isn't restricted to either Texas or
> to
> >"don't." I've heard "sure don't," "sure isn't,"
> and
> >"sure hasn't" all my life, in various parts of the
> >South (mainly the Kurathian South Midland). I'm
> not
> >so sure about "sure won't or "sure can't." I can
> >think of contexts for them, but right off only in
> >response to negative statements. Let me think
> about
> >this.
> >
> >The fact that Lise found it prevalent among locals
> in
> >southern Illinois suggests South Midland to me.
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >
> >--- Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> > > header -----------------------
> > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster: Laurence Horn
> <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > > Subject: Re: Sure don't
> > >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > At 2:20 PM -0500 7/31/07, Scot LaFaive wrote:
> > > >I asked, "Do you have any maps?" She said, "We
> > > sure don't."
> > > >
> > > >While reading some reports at work I came
> across
> > > this construction a few
> > > >times. I'm familiar with using "sure" as an
> adverb
> > > when the answer is in the
> > > >affirmative ("Yes, we sure do."), but not
> > > otherwise. The writer is probably
> > > >an L2 speaker (her L1, if not English, would
> > > probably be Spanish). The
> > > >supposed speaker of "We sure don't" is in
> Texas.
> > > Anyone know if this is a
> > > >regional construction in Texas?
> > > >
> > > >Scot
> > > >
> > >
> > > Not just Texas, I'd guess, but general Southern
> and
> > > [South?] Midland,
> > > unless I miss my guess.
> > >
> > > Michael Montgomery and I just happen to have had
> an
> > > exchange on this
> > > topic last week. With what I hope is his
> > > non-objection, I'll
> > > reproduce Michael's question here and my
> response,
> > > of possible
> > > interest for the reference to the cute (if
> somewhat
> > > ill-informed)
> > > piece in the Atlantic I cite below by the
> humorist
> > > Ian Frazier. The
> > > cartoon in the piece is especially nice.
> > >
> > > LH
> > >
> > > [MM:]
> > > >With regard to regional negatives that
> sometimes
> > > >perplex, I have long wondered how much of a
> role
> > > >intonation might play. Twenty years ago Lise
> Winer
> > > (a
> > > >Canadian) told me that when she went to
> > > SIU-Carbondale
> > > >to teach, she was confused by "I sure don't"
> being
> > > >expressed with the same intonation as "I sure
> do."
> > > >She had been used to the two having very
> different
> > > >patterns, but when she would ask a salespeople
> if
> > > >their shop had a certain product and got the
> > > response
> > > >"we sure don't" with a high falling contour on
> > > >"don't," she was mystified. Do you think this
> > > might
> > > >be a Midlandism?
> > >
> > > [LH:]
> > > I think so; I've come across it both in person
> and
> > > on screen (big and
> > > small) representations and at first was very
> > > confused, until I
> > > recognized what it was doing. What I couldn't
> > > figure out is if it
> > > was intended as a garden path (helped along by
> the
> > > parallel
> > > intonation you mention), an attempt to be
> cheerfully
> > > polite, or
> > > something else.
> > >
> > > Googling it, I find a reference to "The Positive
> > > Negative" in an
> > > Atlantic Monthly piece by Ian Frazier from June
> > > 1997:
> > >
> > > We sure don't!" The last word is spoken with a
> > > rising inflection, as
> > > if the expression were a positive one ending
> with
> > > the word "do".
> > >
> http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97jun/frazier.htm
> > >
> > > (Despite the reference to "a rising inflection",
> I
> > > suspect this is
> > > the very same intonation you refer to as a "high
> > > falling contour".)
> > > Frazier refers to the "Sure Don't Bakery" and
> more
> > > generally to the
> > > 'border into "sure don't" America'.
> > >
> > >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society -
> > > http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
> >Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers
> from someone who
> >knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
>http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society -
> http://www.americandialect.org
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
More information about the Ads-l
mailing list