Sure don't
Wilson Gray
hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Sun Aug 5 03:13:40 UTC 2007
To me, the (e) examples sound better with just plain "Naw." "Sho'
don't" an' so fo'th in those examples feel needlessly emphatic to me.
Otherwise, I agree with Michael.
-Wilson
On 8/4/07, Montgomery Michael <ullans at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Montgomery Michael <ullans at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: Re: Sure don't
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've done a little testing of "sure" + negatives and
> present the findings below, based on the ears of two
> people, me and a friend who is a life-long resident of
> lower South Carolina. For me the response with "sure"
> + negative is fine following five different syntactic
> patterns, for six different auxiliaries. For my
> friend, they are as well, but in response to the c and
> d sentences below she is more comfortable with, e.g.
> "No, he doesn't" rather than "He sure doesn't" for 1c
> and 1d. Ditto for all six sets for her. Larry, as
> the negation-meister, can you explain?
>
> The intonation for "sure" + negative responses is for
> us usually 233, 334, or 234, always with a
> rising-falling contour on the final segment. It is
> this contour with a high pitch (level 4) that is
> probably what threw Lise Winer off in southern
> Illinois. She was used to that that intonation with
> affirmatives, to express approval, but it did not
> compute for a salesperson to respond that "we sure
> don't" have a certain product.
>
> Michael
>
> 1 a He doesn't understand. He sure doesn't.
> b He doesn't understand, does he? "
> c He sure doesn't understand. "
> d He sure doesn't understand, does he? "
> e Does he understand? "
>
> 2 a We haven't seen the last of him. We sure
> haven't.
> b We haven't seen the last of him, have we? "
> c We sure haven't seen the last of him. "
> d We sure haven't seen the last of him, have we? "
> e Have we seen the last of him? "
>
> 3 a They aren't telling the truth. They sure
> aren't.
> b They aren't telling the truth, are they? "
> c They sure aren't telling the truth. "
> d They sure aren't telling the truth, are they? "
> e Are they telling the truth? "
>
> 4 a She won't make that mistake again. She sure won't.
> b She won't make that mistake again, will she? "
> c She sure won't make that mistake again. "
> d She sure won't make that mistake again, will she?
> "
> e Will she make that mistake again? "
>
> 5 a They shouldn't be doing that. They sure
> shouldn't.
> b They shouldn't be doing that, should they? "
> c They sure shouldn't be doing that. "
> d They sure shouldn't be doing that, should they? "
> e Should they be doing that? "
>
> 6 a He can't carry a tune. They sure can't.
> b He can't carry a tune, can he? "
> c He sure can't carry a tune. "
> d He sure can't carry a tune, can he? "
> e Can he carry a tune "
>
>
> --- Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at ohio.edu> wrote:
>
> > It's common here in southern Ohio too (South
> > Midland/Appalachian), and with
> > all the verbs mentioned (including 'won't' and
> > 'can't'). But I wonder if I
> > haven't heard/said this usage all my life, in
> > Minnesota too? Or maybe
> > that's Arnold's misremembering again.
> >
> > It only follows a negative statement though, as you
> > both have pointed out,
> > unlike the New England "So don't I" in response to a
> > positive
> > statement. Since no one responded to my query about
> > "so don't I" possibly
> > following a negative statement as well, I assume it
> > wouldn't? Except in
> > the form "Neither do I," I assume.
> >
> > Beverly
> >
> > At 06:04 PM 7/31/2007, you wrote:
> > >---------------------- Information from the mail
> > header
> > >-----------------------
> > >Sender: American Dialect Society
> > <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >Poster: Montgomery Michael <ullans at YAHOO.COM>
> > >Subject: Re: Sure don't
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Dear Larry
> > >
> > >Belated thanks for the link to the Atlantic story.
> > >The usage sure isn't restricted to either Texas or
> > to
> > >"don't." I've heard "sure don't," "sure isn't,"
> > and
> > >"sure hasn't" all my life, in various parts of the
> > >South (mainly the Kurathian South Midland). I'm
> > not
> > >so sure about "sure won't or "sure can't." I can
> > >think of contexts for them, but right off only in
> > >response to negative statements. Let me think
> > about
> > >this.
> > >
> > >The fact that Lise found it prevalent among locals
> > in
> > >southern Illinois suggests South Midland to me.
> > >
> > >Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >--- Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> > > > header -----------------------
> > > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > > <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > > Poster: Laurence Horn
> > <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> > > > Subject: Re: Sure don't
> > > >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > At 2:20 PM -0500 7/31/07, Scot LaFaive wrote:
> > > > >I asked, "Do you have any maps?" She said, "We
> > > > sure don't."
> > > > >
> > > > >While reading some reports at work I came
> > across
> > > > this construction a few
> > > > >times. I'm familiar with using "sure" as an
> > adverb
> > > > when the answer is in the
> > > > >affirmative ("Yes, we sure do."), but not
> > > > otherwise. The writer is probably
> > > > >an L2 speaker (her L1, if not English, would
> > > > probably be Spanish). The
> > > > >supposed speaker of "We sure don't" is in
> > Texas.
> > > > Anyone know if this is a
> > > > >regional construction in Texas?
> > > > >
> > > > >Scot
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not just Texas, I'd guess, but general Southern
> > and
> > > > [South?] Midland,
> > > > unless I miss my guess.
> > > >
> > > > Michael Montgomery and I just happen to have had
> > an
> > > > exchange on this
> > > > topic last week. With what I hope is his
> > > > non-objection, I'll
> > > > reproduce Michael's question here and my
> > response,
> > > > of possible
> > > > interest for the reference to the cute (if
> > somewhat
> > > > ill-informed)
> > > > piece in the Atlantic I cite below by the
> > humorist
> > > > Ian Frazier. The
> > > > cartoon in the piece is especially nice.
> > > >
> > > > LH
> > > >
> > > > [MM:]
> > > > >With regard to regional negatives that
> > sometimes
> > > > >perplex, I have long wondered how much of a
> > role
> > > > >intonation might play. Twenty years ago Lise
> > Winer
> > > > (a
> > > > >Canadian) told me that when she went to
> > > > SIU-Carbondale
> > > > >to teach, she was confused by "I sure don't"
> > being
> > > > >expressed with the same intonation as "I sure
> > do."
> > > > >She had been used to the two having very
> > different
> > > > >patterns, but when she would ask a salespeople
> > if
> > > > >their shop had a certain product and got the
> > > > response
> > > > >"we sure don't" with a high falling contour on
> > > > >"don't," she was mystified. Do you think this
> > > > might
> > > > >be a Midlandism?
> > > >
> > > > [LH:]
> > > > I think so; I've come across it both in person
> > and
> > > > on screen (big and
> > > > small) representations and at first was very
> > > > confused, until I
> > > > recognized what it was doing. What I couldn't
> > > > figure out is if it
> > > > was intended as a garden path (helped along by
> > the
> > > > parallel
> > > > intonation you mention), an attempt to be
> > cheerfully
> > > > polite, or
> > > > something else.
> > > >
> > > > Googling it, I find a reference to "The Positive
> > > > Negative" in an
> > > > Atlantic Monthly piece by Ian Frazier from June
> > > > 1997:
> > > >
> > > > We sure don't!" The last word is spoken with a
> > > > rising inflection, as
> > > > if the expression were a positive one ending
> > with
> > > > the word "do".
> > > >
> > http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97jun/frazier.htm
> > > >
> > > > (Despite the reference to "a rising inflection",
> > I
> > > > suspect this is
> > > > the very same intonation you refer to as a "high
> > > > falling contour".)
> > > > Frazier refers to the "Sure Don't Bakery" and
> > more
> > > > generally to the
> > > > 'border into "sure don't" America'.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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