episodic "never" (was Re: Final call for papers: ADS 2008 Chicago)

Wed Aug 8 00:53:04 UTC 2007

>I recommend that you'uns check out the following book:
>
>South, Stanley. 1996. I never killed a man didn't need
>killing. Columbia, SC: Wine Cellar.
>
>This usage is right common in the South Midland in my
>experience, and they's quite a few cites in my
>Dictionary of Smoky Mountain English, including
>
>She never died then.
>
>You never seen a hillside plowed then, did you?
>
>Is this construction Elizabethan, Larry?
>
>Michael

The OED, under 2a, has this in the NEVER entry:

As a simple emphatic negative relating to a single event: not at all,
in no way. In later use chiefly with imperatives, and in colloq. use
expressing emphatic denial (freq. with the verb omitted).

with cites back to Old and Early Middle English, so it's been around
awhile.  The distinction drawn here between the colloquial emphatic
use ("Well, I never!" and such, also discussed by Jespersen) and the
non-emphatic episodic use which has pretty much disappeared from
standard use, even colloquially (except for imperatives?), is quite
useful.  Regionally, on both sides of the Atlantic, it appears to be
alive and more or less well.

LH

>
>--- Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>  header -----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society
>>  <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>  Subject:      episodic "never" (was Re: Final call
>>  for papers: ADS 2008
>>                Chicago)
>>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  At 4:11 PM -0400 8/7/07, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
>>  >Jenny Cheshire had an article some years ago on
>>  this same punctual use of
>>  >"never" by kids in Reading, I believe (not at hand
>>  now).  I think I recall
>>  >hearing it too, most commonly in strong denial
>>  situations like the one
>>  >Wilson suggests.  Maybe it's not nonstandard for
>>  most people but just
>>  >colloquial.
>>
>>  To decide this, especially when "never" is used with
>>  full verb
>>  phrases (as opposed to the free-standing "Well/No, I
>>  never"), it
>>  would be helpful to focus on cases where you know a
>>  particular event
>>  could only happen once, e.g. "I never killed him".
>>  For me this would
>>  be non-standard and not just colloquial.  Curiously,
>>  Cheshire in the
>>  piece Beverly and I were referring to takes
>>  observers to task on
>>  exactly this point.  I wrote in my review:
>>
>>  Cheshire has interesting things to say about the
>>  role of prescriptive
>>  edicts in language change, but I am not sure what
>>  she means in
>>  asserting that never in reference to a single past
>>  event 'has been
>>  incorrectly labeled non-standard by sociolinguists'
>>  (p. 48); surely
>>  this is a correct (and non-judgmental) application
>>  of the label.
>>
>>  (I also complained that in assuming without argument
>>  that _-n't_ is a
>>  clitic--as opposed to an inflected form--she, along
>>  with other
>>  authors in the volume, disregards the convincing
>>  refutation of this
>>  assumption by Zwicky & Pullum 1983.)
>>
>>  LH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  >
>>  >At 03:38 PM 8/7/2007, you wrote:
>>  >>---------------------- Information from the mail
>>  header
>>  >>-----------------------
>>  >>Sender:       American Dialect Society
>>  <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>  >>Subject:      Re: Final call for papers: ADS 2008
>>  Chicago
>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>
>>  >>I have to go with Ron on this one. When we moved
>>  up to Saint Louis
>>  >>from Texas, we were struck by the ability of white
>>  neighbor kids,
>>  >>ca.1940, to use "No, I never!" for "No, I didn't!"
>>  as well as for "No,
>>  >>I never have / haven't (ever)!"
>>  >>
>>  >>-Wilson
>>  >>
>>  >>On 8/7/07, RonButters at aol.com <RonButters at aol.com>
>>  wrote:
>>  >>>  ---------------------- Information from the
>>  mail header
>>  >>-----------------------
>>  >>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society
>  > <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  >>>  Poster:       RonButters at AOL.COM
>>  >>>
>>  >>Subject:
>>
>>>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Re:=20[ADS-L]=20Final=20c?
>>  >>>                =
>>
>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?all=20for=20papers:=20ADS=202008=20Chicago?=
>>  >>>
>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  >>>
>>  >>>  In a message dated 8/7/07 11:30:19 AM,
>>  preston at MSU.EDU writes:
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>>  > For
>>  >>>  > example, "never" is apparently standard in "I
>>  never went there" for
>>  >>>  > "At no time in the past did I got there" but
>>  nonstandard for "I
>>  >>>  > didn't go there."
>>  >>>  >
>>  >>>
>>  >>>  So "standard" American English has some kind of
>>  punctual-versus-eternal
>>  >>>  aspect? Not for me, I think (maybe for young
>>  guys such as Dennis), is
>>  >>"I never went
>>  >>>  there" 'standard' for either case, though I
>>  could say it informally whether
>>  >>>  my meaning was 'I have never gone there' or 'I
>>  didn't go there at the
>>  >>time that
>>  >>>  instant in time that is at issue in our
>>  conversation." If someone says
>>  >>to me,
>>  >>>  "I never went there"--whether it is Dennis,
>>  Arnold, Frank, or some totally
>>  >>>  vernacular speaker, I cannot know, except for
>>  context, whether the time
>>  >>>  described is punctual or eternal.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>>  **************************************
>>  >>>   Get a sneak
>>  >>>  peek of the all-new AOL at
>>  http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>
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>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>--
>>  >>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a
>>  strange complaint to
>>  >>come from the mouths of people who have had to
>>  live.
>>  >>-----
>>  >>
>>  -Sam'l Clemens
>>  >>
>>
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