Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar

Fri Aug 24 15:49:44 UTC 2007

I agree--but I was surprised to hear it on NPR.  Of course, their people
hypercorrect all the time; but this isn't hypercorrection.

At 11:42 AM 8/24/2007, you wrote:
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>Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>Subject:      Re: Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar
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>Sounds normal (albeit nonstandard) to me.
>
>   JL
>
>Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU> wrote:
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>Subject: Re: Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar
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>Just one more example of acc. used for nom.--surprising even to me: On NPR
>this morning, a female commentator (name?) reported that "Her and her
>husband" (or father, or whatever--can't recall) had to do something or
>other. This isn't hypercorrection in the usual sense of the word; it's
>typical colloquial speech probably used under the pressure of a brief
>unscripted news report from the field. I heard something similar from my
>Linguistics department chair recently, come to think of it, and my grad
>students do this often in colloquial speech.
>
>Beverly
>
>At 06:39 PM 8/23/2007, you wrote:
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> >Poster: Laurence Urdang
> >Subject: Re: Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar
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> >Of course it is, Ron. See my reply.
> > Larry
> >
> >ronbutters at AOL.COM wrote:
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> >Poster: ronbutters at AOL.COM
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> >But isn't this exactly what the word HYPERCORRECTION means? What is YOUR
> >definition, Larry?
> >
> >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Laurence Urdang
> >
> >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 05:43:16
> >To:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar
> >
> >
> >My remark about hypercorrectness was not aimed at sophisticated observers
> >like Horn, and all I meant was that some commentators regard the change of
> >"He gave it to Tom and me" to "He gave it to Tom and I" as
> >hypercorrection, when it is nothing more than correction. It is almost as
> >if some grammar policeman instructed younger speakers that if they were
> >going to say "me," they ought to change it to "I" in order to play it safe
> >and speak "correctly." I have no statistics, but I'd guess that the "I"
> >substitution occurs more frequently (or only?) when there is a compound
> >object: I have never heard, "Give it to I," "It belongs to I," etc.,
> >though, of course, anything is possible.
> >Grammatically, of course, there is nothing "wrong" about putting Tom after
> >me: that is usually a mere matter of politeness, which children are not
> >longer exposed to---let alone taught---these days.
> >L. Urdang
> >
> >Laurence Horn wrote:
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> >Poster: Laurence Horn
> >Subject: Re: Nobel Prize for Archaeological Grammar
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> >
> >At 6:49 AM -0700 8/22/07, Laurence Urdang wrote:
> > >Of course dived is "far older" than "dove": the verb dive is what is
> > >called a "weak" verb (amongst those who know anything about general
> > >or comparative linguistics), hence does not change internally but
> > >adds the "weak" marker of the past, namely, "-d," "-ed," or some
> > >other dental sound.
> > > I am getting very tired of those who label "correct" as
> > >"hypercorrect" as if there were (that's a contrary-to-fact
> > >subjunctive, folks) some stigma attached to being correct.
> >
> >I don't understand this objection. The only way I've seen
> >"hypercorrection" used is as applied to forms that are not normally
> >taken to be "correct" at all, such as (from our recent discussion)
> >"Give it to Tom and I". It's not that there's a stigma associated
> >withe being "correct" (even assuming prescriptivist norms), but that
> >the _motivation_ for using such forms (as opposed to "Me and Tom gave
> >it to you", which is neither "correct" nor "hypercorrect") is the
> >speaker's worry that the form that would normally have been chosen
> >(e.g. "Give it to Tom and me/to me and Tom") is incorrect ('Don't say
> >"me and Tom", say "Tom and I"!') and that the unnatural or artificial
> >("Tom and I") form should be chosen instead. Similarly for
> >phonological examples (e.g. the inserted /r/ between vowels, e.g.
> >"the idear of it", in non-rhotic dialects.) Am I missing something?
> >
> >LH
> >
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