honcho > honcha

Thu Feb 1 14:29:24 UTC 2007

A bit more discussion on the topic. I find Charlie Doyle's response
interesting as it shows two different senses of "folk etymology." I
guess the first sense, the non-linguist sense, could also be called
"false etymology" like the false origin stories passed around about
"posh" and "tip" and "blackmail" (oh, that last one drives me nuts).

---Amy

>
>Date:    Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:29:06 -0500
>From:    Charles Doyle <cdoyle at UGA.EDU>
>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>
>Hey, Amy:  That is, indeed, a "fundamental" question--but neither
>"stupid" nor "obvious"! And your second paragraph eloquently
>responds to your own question.
>
>We folklorists sometimes cringe when we hear the word "folk" bandied
>about by the lay public or scholars in other disciplines.
>
>As it happens, I'll be giving a talk this spring (at the Western
>States Folklore Society conference) that bears on this subject.  At
>the risk of tedium, I'm going to copy the first 70% of my abstract
>here, just below my name.
>
>--Charlie
>
><< Folklorists have often assumed that "dialect" can be regarded as
>a category of folklore.  Most dialect features, however--even though
>they are certainly oral and traditional, and they exhibit some
>degree of variation--have no standing as folklore per se, because
>folklore texts must be consciously produced artifacts, which a
>member of a folk group will intentionally and optionally "perform."
>Dialect, on the other hand, is simply the way somebody talks,
>unselfconsciously for the most part.
>
>The aspects of speech that hold interest for folklorists, then, are
>not a group's normal phonological, morphological, syntactic, and
>lexical behaviors but rather its traditional, albeit personally
>crafted, verbal expressions--oral artifacts (if that word is not
>oxymoronic as applied to folklore). One category of such artifacts
>is folk etymology, though not in the sense that linguists use the
>term--the historical process by which the structure or use of a word
>has been affected by an erroneous perception of the word's
>origin--but rather in the sense of a performed explanation, believed
>or disbelieved, of how a word originated, and (especially) legends,
>riddling questions, and jokes about the origin. >>
>_____________________________________________________
>
>---- Original message ----
>
>>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:22:28 -0500
>>From: Amy West <medievalist at W-STS.COM>
>>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>>
>>Again, I fear I am asking a stupid, fundamental, obvious question
>>that is firmly grounded in my deep ignorance:
>>
>>Can we understand folk etymology as yet another instance of the
>>constant reanalysis of the language that speakers perform on the
>>language?
>>
>>If not, what's the current linguistic understanding of what "folk
>>etymology" is?
>>
>>---Amy West
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:29:25 -0500
>From:    "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>
>>There is a cute example of a coinage based on a folk etymology in the
>>Doonesbury strip for 30 Jan. 07.
>>
>>[Two female engineering students are sitting in front of a robot
>>which they cannot get to work as intended] We're engineering
>>*honchas*, and the thing just sits there mocking us!
>>
>>The word _honchas_ appears to be a derivative of _honcho_, based on
>>the assumption that the word is a borrowing from Spanish; the a -> o
>>substitution would then be in accord with the regular pattern in
>>Spanish gender marking.  The only trouble is _honcho_ comes from
>>Japanese. The OED provides this citation from an unimpeachable
>>source: "1955 Amer. Speech XXX. 118 Honcho. 1. n. A man in charge.
>>(This is a Japanese word translated roughly as 'Chief officer',
>>brought back from Japan by fliers stationed there during the
>>occupation and during the Korean fighting...)." ....
>
>Cute. A number of Web examples appear. I also find (much sparser) "hobo" >
>"hoba" and "bozo" > "boza". Also "Anglo" > "Angla".
>
>I think it's probably more-or-less right to ascribe this "honcha"
>development to folk etymology, although I think it's also possible to make
>one word behave like another without making any assumption about etymology.
>
>The word "honcho", here meaning "straw boss" (essentially "foreman", I
>think), appeared in the mainstream US press at least as early as September
>1945 (according to my glance at the newspapers). It looks like it should be
>Japanese "hanchou" and I don't see anybody disagreeing (except for that AS
>author way back when, who was puzzled about the origin).
>
>I find by Web-search a street in San Diego named "El Honcho Place". Is this
>"honcho" the same one? Or is there some 'real' Spanish word "honcho"? You
>can find lots of examples of "honcho" used in Spanish text on-line but it
>seems to be the English word usually.
>
>-- Doug Wilson
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:42:07 -0800
>From:    "Michael T. Wescoat" <mtwescoat at UCDAVIS.EDU>
>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>
>Amy,
>
>Thank you for your question:
>
>>  Can we understand folk etymology as yet another instance of the
>>  constant reanalysis of the language that speakers perform on the
>>  language?
>
>I think the answer is yes.  Furthermore, the _honchas_ case is
>interesting because the reanalysis of _honcho_ as a Spanish loan word
>facilitated the creation of a new English word _honcha_, which would
>not have arisen in the absence of this folk etymology.  In other
>words, folk etymology is influencing language change.
>
>Michael T. Wescoat
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:58:34 -0800
>From:    "Michael T. Wescoat" <mtwescoat at UCDAVIS.EDU>
>Subject: Re: honcho > honchas
>
>I take your point.
>
>>  A number of Web examples appear. I also find (much sparser) "hobo" >
>>  "hoba" and "bozo" > "boza". Also "Anglo" > "Angla".
>
>I suppose English speakers do apply Spanish-like o~a gender marking
>to o-final words that are not assumed to be Spanish loans.
>
>Michael T. Wescoat
>
>------------------------------

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